Ep. 87 Reimagining Your Legacy: Simple Revolutionary Estate Planning

Imagine finding yourself happily marooned on an island and no one knows where you are. Do you know what's happening with all of your stuff? Do you know the value of your estate? Have you planned for the transference of your wealth and identified who will receive what? Do you know the legacy you want to leave behind and why?

Two-thirds of people in North America do not have an estate plan. Less than 50% of people have a will. In this episode, Adam Zuckerman, an Eisenhower Fellow, Attorney, MBA, and the founder of Buried in Work, is revolutionizing the way people think about estate planning and has simplified the process through numerous, even fun (yes, fun!) resources available on his website, buriedinwork.com.

With deeply personal motivation stemming from his experience managing his father's estate, Adam is dedicated to ensuring everyone has access to the resources they need to secure their legacy and protect their loved ones through the act of organization.

In this episode, Adam provides tips for people of all ages on how to reimagine their legacy. He helps you understand the wealth that comprises your estate, no matter how little you may think you have. Most importantly, he'll show you how to get excited about starting the process of planning the transference of your assets with confidence and ease, and communicating your intentions to your loved ones about the legacy you wish to leave behind.

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https://buriedinwork.com

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https://vonnesolis.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome.
• 0:21 Introduction to episode.
• 3:04 Simplifying estate planning and end-of-life tasks.
• 8:03 Estate planning, wills, and your digital legacy.
• 12:59 Estate planning, wills, and executor duties.
• 17:41 Estate planning for aging baby boomers.
• 22:35 Estate planning, financial literacy, and end-of-life preparation.
• 28:57 Estate planning and wealth transference.
• 32:30 Estate planning, business succession, and legacy management.
• 36:47 Organizing your assets.
• 41:22 DNR orders, and emergency planning.
• 45:04 Estate planning, types of wills, and the importance of seeking legal advice.
• 52:19 Closing.

Transcript

Adam Zuckerman  0:00  
Welcome to another episode of Grief Talk. Everything you want to know about grief and more. I'm your host, Vonne Solis. As an author, mentor and bereaved mom since 2005, through guest interviews and coaching, here's where you'll always get great content that is inspiring and practical to help you heal after loss. 

Vonne Solis  0:21  
Today's guest is Adam Zuckerman. He is the founder of Buried in Work which provides resources and services to simplify estate planning, organization, end of life tasks and estate transitions. With a deeply personal motivation stemming from his experience managing his father's estate, Adam is dedicated to simplifying these complex processes for individuals and families nationwide. As an Eisenhower Fellow, Attorney and MBA, Adam brings a wealth of expertise to his role combining legal knowledge with entrepreneurial vision to drive innovation in the field of estate planning. He seeks to revolutionize the way people approach end of life preparations, ensuring that everyone has access to the resources they need to secure their legacy and protect their loved ones. 

So welcome to the show Adam. I have been looking so forward to this interview with you. So welcome. We're gonna get into a bunch of stuff and audience, I'm going to tell you what that is in just a minute. But Adam pop in and say hello.

Adam Zuckerman  1:23  
Vonne, it is great to be here. I've been looking forward to it as well. And we've got lots to talk about.

Vonne Solis  1:27  
We sure do. So in the intro, I'm not going to repeat the intro because you're you have a huge, like a large background in stuff. Probably the wrong word to say but an impressive background is what I really want to say. But we've connected and the reason it's just so important, Adam is because you're here to talk about how you want to revolutionize estate planning, wealth transference. I'm particularly interested in it for as it relates to the Grief Talk podcast, obviously emergency preparedness. Ha! How many people get caught in a in an emergency, from any age. A baby to an aging parent, and something happens that they're not prepared. They don't even know what to do. They don't have a will. They don't, you know, maybe consider what wealth is. They don't understand estates. There's just a whole bunch we're going to uncover today about what all that is. What it means for every category of person.

So one of the things audience that's very important for me to learn about today from Adam. You as the Pro is how people can think about wealth, especially when they think they have nothing to pass down. That is just a huge one for me especially in today's economy. Today's just the way we live, and people are barely scraping to get by. And paying a lawyer. Paying notary to do a will. I mean, I know you can do one on your own and have it, you know, notarized and witnessed and all that even from another person. But it's a lot and I don't even think people understand what wills really are. 

So let's just dive in. And I want you to if you can and want to share, I know that you are passionate about this because of managing your dad's estate. He died from leukemia, and I believe it was over a 10 or 11 year period, right? But if you just want to jump in and tell us why you're so passionate about this, and what was it about managing your dad's estate that, you know sort of has driven this?

Adam Zuckerman  3:31  
It's a great question. So you're right, he did pass away from leukemia. It was about a six and a half, seven year battle. So a little bit shorter than then 11 or 12. But that's okay. 

Vonne Solis  3:39  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  3:40  
It was interesting. So he was at my house one day, and we were doing some woodworking in the basement. And when he walked up the stairs, he said, I'm tired. And for normal people like you or myself, and we say we're tired, it means we want to go and take a nap. For him it means I have to go back to the doctor's office. At the time, six and a half years prior to that, I actually donated bone marrow to him. And we got him some extra time. And I had the surgery and everything. And it turned out to be great in the sense that he was able to get borrowed time. This and with his diagnosis a decade ago, or two decades ago, he wouldn't have had the extra time at all. 

So he got to meet my sister's kids and build a relationship with them. They were younger. My mom had more opportunities to spend time with him and selfishly I got to spend a lot more time with him also. So he said he was tired. He went back to the doctor. They chucked him into the hospital after a test or two on a Thursday and 12 days later he passed. So far too quickly. Things can just accelerate unbelievably. It was a perfect conversation to up to the day before he passed away. Maybe two days before he passed away it was still complete cognitive abilities.

On the hit on one hand, we got to say goodbye, which was great. And on the other hand, because things happen so quickly it meant that the things that he had put off and that we had put off as a family because you never really want to be accept that eventuality of what might happen? It really keeps (indecipherable), I was executor on his Will. I'm an attorney. I have an MBA. My mom is still around, and I wanted to make things as easier on my mom as possible and the family as well. And I started taking very copious notes about everything that I was doing. And when I alerted my mother's financial planner to show her what I was doing regarding the estate transition. Regarding the account transition. Regarding the marshalling of the assets, at the end of the conversation, I was a bit surprised when I learned that it was the most comprehensive estate transition that that financial planner had ever seen. 

Vonne Solis  5:36  
Really? 

Adam Zuckerman  5:38  
Yeah. So effectively, it went, Adam, this is fantastic. You need to get this to other people. Me, in the back of my head, being the somewhat skeptic that I always have been. Uh, you really just don't want me to move my mom's money to somebody else. This is a very nice compliment. Thank you very much. But in showing other people what I was working on, and overwhelmingly the response from my friends my age. Sandwich generation, to people that are 65 plus went, Adam, I need this information. Please wipe your mom's information from it, type up your notes. We know you know tech. Put it online so we can get it without having to bother you. And I did that. So I took a stab at it. I thought it would be a side project. But we created a website called Buried in Work. You can go to it now buriedinwork.com. And within a few days, we had over 10,000 visits to the website.

Vonne Solis  6:27  
Wow. Wow. That's impressive. So obviously a need that you're filling. A huge need that you're filling.

Adam Zuckerman  6:34  
Absolutely. And as it has evolved since the site went live, we're rapidly becoming that go to resource hub for estate organization and planning. For end of life and estate transition and probate. And we're approaching things somewhat uniquely in the sense that we actually don't want to help you create your Will. We don't want to create your trust for you. We want to give you resources if you're a do it yourselfer that you can do it yourself or get educated on what you need if you have a basic estate. And if not we can connect you with service professionals and providers across multiple different disciplines. So estate planning, cemeteries, funeral services, estates, there's cleanout services, death doulas. So really, you can come to one place and have the entire lifecycle of what you need in one place. 

The reason why I'm doing it is because my dad was organized. We thought he was organized. We rapidly found out as I've been administering an estate in the United States, it takes more than 570 hours on average. I don't know about you Vonne, but most people don't have 570 hours laying around. I wanted to do what I could with the help of a lot of other people that are involved now, to reduce that burden. We have free Do It Yourself resources. And then for people that want a little bit of handling, we also have some really neat products and tools that they can leverage for purchase.

Vonne Solis  8:02  
That's awesome. You know, I've managed my daughter's estate in 2005. So it really sucks. I understand parents out there who have lost a child, it sucks. They, she of course didn't have a Will at 22. We're going to talk about that shortly. Young people getting them interested in what they have as estates. I have a 30, nearly 32 year old son, so bottom of the millennial group. Does not have a Will. Hon, get a Will. Does does have assets. Does have an estate. But they're invincible. We're going to be talking about that because I want us today Adam to get young people watching this and get excited, how they can think about everything you just talked about. So I really want to keep on that. 

I am in Canada. So one of the things I just want to pop up, you know, for the audience here up front is that your resources are nationwide for Americans. People in the states correct? So as we talk, some of what I want to think about for people who are coming from other countries. This podcast reach, you know, reaches a number of countries, how they can think about it as well, if because I think that you might be very advanced in what you're doing. And I'm not sure this kind of stuff is available in other countries.

Adam Zuckerman  9:28  
It's a great point. And I'll preface with this. The vast majority of the information that we have on our website was specifically tailored for the United States. However, it's universally applicable no matter where you are. Keeping a record of what bank accounts you have. Keeping a record to be notified of your key contacts. Organization systems of gathering information about family members, your citizenship, your career and education history. Your digital legacy, that's universal. 

Vonne Solis  9:58  
Yes.

Adam Zuckerman  9:58  
What isn't necessarily applicable are the state specific jurisdiction requirements on what makes a Will legally binding in Louisiana. That's something you do need to speak to somebody local at your, you know, near where you are in the country.

Vonne Solis  10:13  
Yeah. Well just research it. So in Canada, I just want to let people know. I did just research provinces and territories are responsible for what you just said, for the ministry of wills and making sure they're binding. So that is not a federal it is a provincial thing. Okay. So universally, anybody watching this or listening to this podcast episode could go to your website. Gather basic information of at least about getting started getting their assets and their information together. Let's talk about that Adam. Some key things I did want to know if you could explain this. How you're driving innovation in the field of estate planning. And if you could sort of tie that in with information you make available to people so they can at least not be afraid of this. Because I think people are really scared to even look at the truth of what they have or don't have. Specifically they don't have.

Adam Zuckerman  11:11  
Yeah, okay. I'm gonna start with a few statistics. And I'll frame back to the questions specifically. 

Vonne Solis  11:17  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  11:17  
First statistic is 100% of people listening to this podcast has an estate. And you might not realize it but you do. If you're in America, I'm not sure if this works the way it does in many other countries, but I believe so generally speaking, you also have an estate plan, even if you don't have a Will. 100%. And the reason why is that if you don't have a Will. If you don't have a trust, which are typically two of the foundational documents that people consider in estate planning, we can talk about those and other ones as well. 

Vonne Solis  11:48  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  11:48  
What that means is that when you pass away, there's going to be local regulations. And that could be a law that's state level. Provincial level, federal level, depending on your country and I'm speaking to make sure that we're speaking to all of the audience that listens 

Vonne Solis  12:02  
yes

Adam Zuckerman  12:02  
to this podcast. 

Vonne Solis  12:03  
Yeah. 

Adam Zuckerman  12:04  
And if you don't have that, well, guess what? It's just gonna follow those regulations. So you have an estate plan. It's just not one that you control, per se.

Vonne Solis  12:12  
Adam, I just want to jump in quickly. So a person could even think of their bank account as part of their estate? 

Adam Zuckerman  12:19  
Yes. If you wear clothes, you have some valuables. You have money in an account? You have valuables. 

Vonne Solis  12:24  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  12:25  
You have something that isn't valuable but it's really sentimental to you. Like an award that you won in elementary school for being the best. That is still part of your estate. So to think I don't need to have any estate plan because I don't have anything, A that's wrong. But B, estate planning isn't designed for today. The estate planning is designed for tomorrow. And what you want to do is take stock of where you are today. 

Vonne Solis  12:51  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  12:51  
So you're more than prepared and flexible for the future that you can evolve in your estate plan. It can evolve no matter what happens.

Vonne Solis  12:59  
Yeah. And I just I just want to jump in for a point. For some of you young ones, I hope you younger ones are gonna you know, watch and listen, watch this and listen to this. Because the thing is even your insurance from your employer. Life insurance that might be mandatory. That's an estate. Part of your estate. And someone has to clean it up, right, Adam? Oh, I'm getting too excited here.

Adam Zuckerman  13:23  
The best way to think about it, okay? If you are going to go on a vacation. And you get to your island, and you're stuck there. You're marooned on this beautiful island. You have all the food that you need. You're gonna have a relaxing three to five months. But nobody knows where you are. Nobody knows what happened to you. You can't contact anybody. What do you think's going on with all of your stuff at work? At home in your family life and your personal life for the period while you're gone? That is what your estate plan needs to be able to pick up. 

A Will gives general advice and instructions that are legally binding on what has to happen. What you want to have happen to your material possessions. But everything else also has to be considered in that estate plan. If you have children, who's the guardian for them? If you have pets who's going to look after them? If you have assets what happens to them? Who pays your bills? Who needs to be contacted? There's so many things that go into an estate plan, it really needs to go to the thought process of if I disappeared tomorrow? A death disappearing for forever. 

Vonne Solis  14:34  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  14:34  
Or, even if I'm incapacitated. So what happens if you get in a car accident and you're in a coma for a month or two? Or maybe longer and you just can't advocate for yourself? What happens? And I don't know about you, but personally, while I love my family. I love my wife. I love my mom. I love my sisters. But there are some things that I would rather not have them guess what I would want.

Vonne Solis  14:57  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  14:57  
There's a need to give them the directives of if I can't advocate on my own, this is how I want you to advocate on my behalf.

Vonne Solis  15:06  
Advocate. Yeah, I love that. I love love love that should get you younger people interested and thinking about this. Especially, you know, getting marooned on a tropical island where you really want to stay and may never come back. And then I would assume after a period of time, your jurisdiction is going to treat you as missing and all of that stuff is going to start to become in play. 

The other thing I was going to say people, also remember a vehicle is going to be, you know, part of your estate. Adam, you mentioned a bunch of things. But the reason I like having you itemize them and think about it. Your clothes, your this your that is because and the sentimentals is because people just ahh, nobody else wants it. Nobody cares. So the other piece I want to put in here is even for a little bit of an older generation, check with your children what they do and don't want. We found out our son doesn't want our condo and really doesn't care about my Mustang convertible.

Adam Zuckerman  16:02  
Vonne, if you need somebody to give that to  can give you my address.

Vonne Solis  16:05  
Oh, you're going to take it? Okay. There you go. Because here's the here's the thing. Even when, like you said, siblings. And in my family, I have one sister, and I'm her executor. That's it. Everything falls to me. I've already done it for my mom. I did it for my daughter. It's a lot of pressure. Nobody really wants it. But who else is going to do it? And so when you're thinking about do I or don't I want to be an executor? Think about it. Think about who you want to ask if you're the one preparing your Will. And you would and I'm just saying this from my perspective of someone who has who has been been well stuck with the job essentially. So the thing is, because not everyone is capable of doing it, and not everybody wants to do it. But the and then and so but going back to that other piece about who does or doesn't want your stuff? That's so important. 

I will just say to you cleaning up my mom's stuff, and she didn't have a Will. So I was just made executor, just because even though there were other siblings, I was made executor. And it was the hardest thing having to decide what to throw out that she had kept because it was so sentimental. So there is a lot of emotional stuff attached to this if you're not prepared. Fortunately, she had told me just a few weeks before her death, where everything was. What there where the money was if she should die, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I didn't have to worry about that part of it. But I did have to be concerned with everything that was left behind that wasn't designated. So I just want to throw that in to everything you're saying. It's just so emotional, isn't it? Adam?

Adam Zuckerman  17:40  
It is. And here's what's really interesting about that. So in America every single day 10,000 people are turning 65. Which means by the end of the decade, there will be a doubling of people 65 and older, leading us into the largest wealth transfer in history. Baby boomer silent generation are going to be transferring $84.4 trillion of assets, through to 2045. Now, there's some really weird implications of that. First of all, that women in America outlive their male counterparts by an average of 5.8 years. So six years, let's say. If you have traditional family values and obviously, this is not everybody. Always remember to never speak in absolutes.

Vonne Solis  18:22  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  18:22  
There are a number of women who are about to find themselves in situations where they're thrust into managing their financial affairs, but they're not necessarily up to speed on on how to do that. What we need to do is provide the resources and this is one of the things that Buried in Work does is provide the resources so people understand that if their spouse. If their partner, something happens to them, they know what bills need to be paid. How they're paid. What the contracts are. How to pay them seamlessly, because we don't want anybody to find themselves, quite frankly, in a time of mourning and high stress, have to find this out for the first time. 

And then when you take this back to your son, or if you have children, the sandwich generation. So people that are aged 40 to 59, fifteen percent of them are now caring financially and more for their parents and themselves and/or a child. So when you think about that, if you don't take initiative and get on top of estate planning, not only for yourselves, but for your parents, you're going to have to unravel that mystery of everything they're leaving behind. So the recommendation is get everything organized, get everything organized now for your parents  because you're going to have to pick up those pieces. And trust me that's not a scavenger hunt that you want to go on without their insights.

Vonne Solis  19:38  
And also don't you think people have secrets? Yeah, okay. I didn't I didn't really come across that but I'm just saying that because what you just said, I'm going to jump on this. I just did some stats yesterday because I wanted to not only sound smart, but no I wanted to see what they were. The difference between the States and Canada. So I found out that 48% of Canadians have a Will in general. 74% of those are 55 Plus and older. The stats, they're very similar for the States. 36% of 30 to 49 year olds have a Will. So that's only 36%. But if you talk about it, and 69, don't? I think I have my numbers right there, the reverse? That's a lot. In Canada, we're roughly the same 20% of under 30s have a Will. So you know, one in five. The other four don't. So 80 out of 100, do not have, planned for their assets. So that's huge numbers when you start talking millions of people. So it's very close to the states from what I gathered and you can maybe confirm that.

But the thing I wanted to mention about the boomers, and I'm going to bring it in here. So we have also the same. Maybe not 10,000, a year turning 65 but the numbers are high, where it impacts the government. Because so many people, if only 40% of Canadians, and I don't know what it is in the States in general that 53% have a Will I think I read in the States. So around 50% or just under or just over half a Will. But most of those are the older people. But a lot of those turning 65 in the next five, six years, right? Don't, they haven't planned for their estate. They may not have a Will. They haven't even planned, they haven't even done an inventory of what they have. And a lot of them are just spending their money. So if you're not anyway, if you're not being conscious about it, right? The money goes somewhere. 

But anyway, and I'm just going to say this, and I don't think we don't have time to talk about it. But I'm just going to say I think this are implications for stresses on governments in how they're actually going to be able to ensure pensions. Like federal pensions, and basically security for the boomers who are retired. The retirees. And so where I live, and I live on Vancouver Island, we see a lot of seniors working. A lot. And I'm not talking working out their jobs that they loved and can't quit. I'm talking about working at, you know, stores. And it's sad. And you know, and anyway, so there is that implication not only on the individual, but also as the state itself, if you will having to care for people who, in my view, I don't want to say we're careless. I think we're ignorant about estate planning. But I'm not being judgey. I'm not being judgey. Because I none of us are taught this. We're not taught financial literacy, of which wills and estate planning and wealth transfers transference should be taught in high school, as far as I'm concerned.

Adam Zuckerman  22:47  
That is definitely a topic for another podcast. 

Vonne Solis  22:50  
Yeah, I know. I know. 

Adam Zuckerman  22:52  
But you're 100 percent correct that the shifting demographics around the world in many countries is becoming somewhat problematic because there is going to be a top heavy societal drain on pension plans. And there's countries where there's negative birth rates right now. And the entire premise is you pay in for other people and that's complicated. But you're correct, that there are considerations there. Back to your statement about the statistics of how many people in America have a Will and a trust? Two thirds of Americans don't have a Will or a Trust.

Vonne Solis  23:24  
Two thirds?

Adam Zuckerman  23:25  
Two thirds is a recent standard, which is unfortunately crazy. Because again, it goes back to that concept that the state, the government is going to determine how things happen on your behalf. Right? So the question then becomes, how do you start these conversations? Because it is a very challenging and scary topic for a lot of people. 

Vonne Solis  23:46  
Yeah. 

Adam Zuckerman  23:46  
And when we first started chatting, you asked, What are some of the more innovative things that we're doing is making this topic accessible to as many people as possible. You know, come to our website. There's a page you can visit, this is how to start the conversation with your parents. And within that there is a very quick quiz that you can take. Two and a half minutes. It goes to two branching trees. One is for your estate. One is for somebody else's estate, your parents. 

Vonne Solis  24:10  
Oh, okay.

Adam Zuckerman  24:10  
And at the end of it, it'll give you a score of zero to 10. And then based on that score, it says you're very organized. You're not organized. It gives you suggestions that say, here's how you start the conversation with your parents. Cut and paste this message. Mom, Dad, I took this quiz online and saw the result and I'd like to talk to you about something. So that's, that's one way you can do it that starts the conversation. 

If you really want to be organized, we have what's been described as the most comprehensive estate preparation organization package you can possibly buy. It is a document that has 12 sections, 61 subsections, 50, forms, logs, worksheets. A whole host of other things that helps you organize all the information that is most important to your life. So this is your financial information, your background information, your tax returns, insurance. Your health and medical information. So if something were to happen to you, you can go to the binder that can stay in your house. It's blue. You can take the orange binder that has all your medical information, your end of life wishes. The the summaries of your advanced directives, if not some of your Advanced Directives themselves to the hospital with you. And there's a binder that is actually fire resistant, water resistant that you can store your documents in. So that's, that's something that if you get hit by a bus, this is literally everything that your family needs to be able to step in and manage your estate. 

And then there's a lot of things that are in between it. So we just re revamped our what to do after someone dies checklist. It gives you all the steps of what you need to do in order. It's for free on the website. We have two card games. One is called One More Story, which is really neat. It's 126 prompts that help you ask questions to save those memories that someone's going to lose when they pass. So tell me one more story about when you were kid. Tell me one more story about Grandpa. Tell me one more story about your favourite experience doing this. Tell me one more story about the legacy you want to leave. Then we have a game called Nothing Left Unsaid. Again, a card game, you can travel with these very easily. And it's similar to the estate preparation package. And it asks if you have a Will. If you have a trust, where your documents are. Like it's designed for people that don't have enough time to actually go and, and complete the estate preparation package themselves. 

So we wanted to make sure that people had as much information as they could for end of life and funeral planning. So we developed guides that are very comprehensive for Christians, for Jewish people, for Hindus, for Muslims. Not just us. The experts weigh in. For LGBTQ+. For secular. And then we took those guides for  the sandwich generation that really likes tech like me. And we informed ChatGPTs with the guides so you can have a conversation with the guide itself, asking questions. 

Vonne Solis  27:01  
Ooh, that's fun.

Adam Zuckerman  27:03  
Yeah. We're doing some really neat stuff to make it as accessible to everybody and we're starting to build out that ecosystem where it links. So if you look at the what to do steps after somebody passes away, and it says, Oh, you may want to talk to an attorney here that's going to link you to the directory where we have attorneys that are are in North America near you. It's that cross mesh of a really cool experience that, that we hope helps a lot of people out. 

Vonne Solis  27:29  
Yeah, and sometimes it can just be the best money you ever spend just getting it together. I just wanted to jump in on a couple of points. So you've mentioned how you can get young people involved with all of that stuff. But still, how do you get them to the site Adam?

Adam Zuckerman  27:49  
Okay. You need to talk to them about it. You need to say, Hey, I found a really (?) site, it's called Buried in Work. This isn't for me, this is for you, or this is for you to help me. And just figure it out. I mean, everybody's unique, just like everybody else. And the question is, how do you get people to learn about it, and that's exposure. You need to start talking  about this conversation. You need to make it personal for them. You are going to be impacted if you do not do this. Your friends, your loved ones, your family is going to be impacted. And that's the feedback that we've gotten from a lot of people. 

We've had individuals buy our products like the estate preparation package for themselves and for their parents. We've had parents buy it for themselves, and then also buy it for their kids. We have companies that are offering it as employee benefits. We have conversations right now with tax prep service providers that are buying it in bulk for their clients. We have companies that are purchasing the games as gifts, and thank you's. There's so many different angles that you can come at from this, that the reality is, is that it's one of those questions of how do you want to get involved? And then what's best for you.

Vonne Solis  28:57  
And I'll just say, ask yourself, what do I want to do for my loved ones? How do I want to simplify their life so they don't have to struggle should anything happen to me. And that is just something that is the emotional piece of this. So the communication and we're not going to talk about that because you just covered it all. I'm actually going to go to your website and maybe do a couple of those things. We've got a Will. We've talked. We talk openly having lost my daughter almost 19 years ago. Nothing, nothing goes unsaid I can tell you that. But it's motivating now, the next generation as well. I want to just quickly, we're you know, coming up, not quite to the top of the hour, but we're getting there. So what I don't want to not discuss is first of all, how people can start to think about wealth. So you know, someone might be listening to this or watching this and going Yeah, yeah but I don't have a house. I don't have property. I don't have this. I don't have anything. I'm not wealthy. So even though we touched on it how younger people in the beginning could think about what what an estate is, let's talk about what they can think of as their wealth.

Adam Zuckerman  30:09  
There is a variety of things that you can consider as well. There's obviously just straight, hard cash. There's other intangible assets that you may have collected. There's the sentimental items. There is your legacy itself. So there are things like legacy messaging, where you're passing on your thoughts, hopes, wills, for the future generation. How you might want to be remembered that is part of your estate plan as well. So in the event, something happens to me, I'd like this person to receive this message. You need to think holistically in the sense of, if you're not going to be remembered in 300 years from now, and most people aren't. I know, I'm not going to be or at least I don't expect to be, what is your legacy? And your legacy is the impact that you leave on the world after you're gone. And if that's the case, that is your wealth. It's not the physical goods that you're necessarily transferring on, but rather, how you've left the world in a better place.

Now, if you do want to talk about specific assets and things like that, it gets to a question of financial literacy, which is extremely important. We have an initial call to ask three questions. And it gives you the three specific questions that you're supposed to ask of every single financial institution or insurance policy that you have. The first one is what will happen to this account and or policy when I pass away, because that's very important. Who is authorized to access and communicate with the institution regarding this account or policy when I pass away? Because trust me, try to have a conversation with a bank when you're not allowed to talk to them can be very frustrating. 

Vonne Solis  31:43  
Yeah, been there. Yep.

Adam Zuckerman  31:45  
And third, what benefits or entitlements will be available to my designated beneficiaries when I pass away? Because some accounts have insurance provisions in them that have special policies that you get paid out on that can help you with specific circumstances that you might not even expect.

Vonne Solis  32:01  
Yep. 

Adam Zuckerman  32:01  
But you come to the website, you can download a form. You can go to your bank and say, Hey, fill this out for me about every single one of my accounts. And you're going to learn, Do I have a payable on death beneficiary designated? Do I have transfer on death? is this a joint account? Who can talk? And if not, what do I need to have this happen? And that not only makes you more financially literate, but it helps everybody that's going to have to deal with your estate if you're incapacitated, or pass away, and not have to increase that amount of time that they need to spend. 

Vonne Solis  32:29  
That is amazing. So I just want to encourage again, audience just go to buriedinwork.com. I'm sure you can navigate, I haven't yet been to the site in depth to navigate all the different areas, but it's quite easy, I'm sure to map you and guide you to the areas that you want to learn more about. I'm actually as you're talking, Adam, I'm thinking that this is a process. This is not something you're gonna go to and get it done in like, in two hours. You know? I got two hours. I think because this is asking us to consider our lives. Consider ourselves and everything we've contributed to the world to this point. And so I just have a quick question for those of us that have a business? At what point do you think and a business, like that's not that's the same as wealth transference. And so people that have like incorporated companies, things like that, should they is there an age that we should shut them down so we don't want to burden anybody else with all this stuff? Like what do people do who have businesses?

Adam Zuckerman  33:34  
All right, so a business is just part of your estate, depending on how it is organized and your ownership structure in it. 

Vonne Solis  33:41  
Right.

Adam Zuckerman  33:41  
If you do have a business as you age, one of the most important things you can do is have a succession plan. And it's not necessarily to say that you have to shut it down. If it's still generating revenue, and you're still involved, I mean keep on doing it if it makes you happy. But what you need to do is have that plan in place. 

Vonne Solis  33:59  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  34:00  
But in the event, something happened to you, individuals know what to do. And that requires having contact information. What attorneys have helped you set this business up if there's legal documents, and structure. Who needs to be contacted? Who's going to be impacted if this business shuts down? Are customers going to be put out? Do I have partners that need to be notified? And it could be that in the event of someone's passing the partners have right of first refusal to buy out their interest in the company itself. There isn't a black or white answer to that question other than to say, you need to start getting that information in order. In our estate preparation package we have a section for business interests.

Vonne Solis  34:39  
Okay. 

Adam Zuckerman  34:39  
And it gives you a high level summary of these are the key people that need to be contacted. This is whether I have a succession plan. And from that you can start going in layers but unravelling business interests can be a very time consuming and expert significant amount required.

Vonne Solis  34:57  
Yeah, I'm just thinking also of sole proprietors, for example. Those people that think, again, so many people, this is just what I've gathered over my decades and in the work I do, don't think really highly of themselves. And there's a lot that don't. There are some absolutely that do, but the more we understand that we all are worth something and have something and you've just really clarified what is an estate is, especially your legacy. Everything matters with who you are and what you've contributed and are contributing to this world in your own way. And you are leaving something behind, even when you think you aren't. So do it for your loved ones, please. I literally, I literally think everybody should go visit buriedinwork and get from it what they can. Like, go to the site and learn and then go and research in your country what's available. It's pretty easy to do. Most stuff is online. Like in Canada, we have a supplemental death benefit I'll bet you a lot of people don't even know about.

Adam Zuckerman  36:00  
Yep. We had the former Deputy Chief Technology Officer. I think that's his exact title at NASA. We were doing some the estate preparation package, and the quote that he gave after learning about it is literally on the side of the box. And it says "Leave your heirs the gift of organization". 

Vonne Solis  36:19  
Wow. Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  36:20  
The thing is you might not settle somebody's estate, but someone is going to settle yours.

Vonne Solis  36:26  
Yeah. Oh, and I just think it's such a burden. If you if you've never had to do estate cleanup, I'll just call it, it's awful. I don't care who it's for. It's awful having to wade through and what did they have, and whatever. So I'm telling you, the greatest gift we can give each other is the communication. And be honest and don't get hurt people if someone doesn't want your stuff, okay? As Adam says, he'll take my Mustang.

Adam Zuckerman  36:55  
We have we have on the shop section. And I think it's actually like $10. It's not expensive. 

Vonne Solis  37:00  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  37:01  
It's a family heirloom and keepsakes log. So it gives you 100 forms that you can walk around your house and you can say this is what it is. This is why it's important to me. This is what I want to have happen to it if this person doesn't want it. Because oftentimes people say, You know what? I want this to go to somebody, but their kids don't want to come over and look through your stuff. That sets up the framework of hey, this is what I want to have happen. The trick is there are really innovative ways to get your family involved. And sometimes if they say no, just take, take initiative on your own.

Vonne Solis  37:31  
Yeah, because I will just throw this piece in from you know, again, my side of it, is that what what we think is important to us? Like my mom was a painter, as well as a musician. And, you know, the fact was like, I didn't want her paintings. You know, some of her paintings. And so I felt really guilty about that. And a lot of her stuff went to people who weren't family who really loved and wanted her stuff. And you've got to like, if you have the conversation and someone says to you before they go, It's okay, if you don't want this. It frees you to instead of obsess about the one path you're sure you're going down. Like I am leaving a, b and c to this person, and you don't know that they don't even want it, it frees you knowing that they don't want it years earlier to make a different plan. And that is such a key piece because there's an awful lot of guilt associated with not only that on on the end of if you're responsible for taking this stuff and doing something with it. And sometimes it ends up in a dump, you know, which is painful to do. And, and the other thing is, I just think that and we're not talking about this today. I have talked about this in other episodes with other people. But it's like you said earlier. People don't want to really talk about this stuff because it signifies the end of life or something catastrophic happening medically or something where you know, again, get your get your Power of Attorney. But it is the most freeing thing to talk about it and go, Ahh, you know, may not happen, but it could happen. And you know, before every flight for example. Like whatever, just make sure everybody knows where everything is. And that's another point, Adam. Make sure people know where to find your stuff. Your Will. 

Adam Zuckerman  37:31  
Oh, I love it. You said that. So in our guide, the first thing that you do is you start getting things organized. Like this is the system .

Vonne Solis  37:58  
Yeah.

What you do? Is notify three trusted individuals because if you don't notify them, everything that you did if people don't get notified doesn't exist. So it's you started the process, understand what it is. Step two, notify three loved ones. That can be family members. That can be your attorney.

Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  39:42  
Not tell them what's in it because a lot of people want that mysterious, you know, Hey, I'm not going to tell you! But you have to notify people that you've actually started the process that are going to be involved.

Vonne Solis  39:54  
Yeah. I'm going to ask you a last question, which is going to be your your three tips people can can, you know, in general, you know, do to just start considering estate planning. Because listen, anybody that even watches this, it's worth going to buried in work. It's work going to a lawyer. It's work going to etc, etc. And as I said, this, I believe is an absolute process of introspection and may, you know, incredible consideration of, of everything we have acquired in our lifetime. And by the way, young people, you do matter. And you do have an estate. Just a reminder, you do have an estate. You're going to leave something behind. Plan for it now. It'll help your parents should something happen to you. But the other thing I did just want to point out, and you may want to just remark on this is that even when people really don't have that much to leave behind there can be considerable arguing and fighting over things. It can destroy families, can it not? 

Adam Zuckerman  40:52  
Absolutely.

Vonne Solis  40:53  
Right. So yeah. So it's not that you have to have millions and billions, you know, that people are going to fight over. You could have 10,000 bucks, and there could be considerable damage done to families over not only who gets the money. How it's divvied up, but what what siblings, children, you know, want to do with an estate. So making this you know, clear for everybody involved can probably save families. That's just what I want to say. You know? Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  41:25  
The other question about the three things, all right? I think it's pretty simple. 

Vonne Solis  41:25  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  41:27  
Consider, create and update. So first, consider what you want to have happen. Your things in your state. What your legacy is. Two, create the appropriate documentation that is needed for where you live. So that can be a Will. It can be Trust. It can be advanced directives that could include a Living Will. A health care proxy, a Power of Attorney documentation. A host or portable medical orders. A whole host of other documents that, you know, we can get in the details if we needed to another time. And then thirdly, update. You need to make it where your your plan is not a moment in time. I hear time and time again, where oh, well, I've created a Will 30 years ago, I'm still good, right? No, no. 30 years ago, A) is different than it is today. And B) the laws have probably changed a little bit. So while the Will is probably God-fathered in, it likely isn't reflective of your current situation. So, the three things is consider, create and then update.

Vonne Solis  42:32  
Thank you. I love that. I love that it's making me think about my own stuff I have to do. One last question as we are coming to the top of the hour, Adam, and then I'll ask you to just leave us with your last thoughts. Do you think people should have a DNR? Is this part of what they could think of, I don't want to say estate, but certainly planning. Emergency planning. 

Adam Zuckerman  42:52  
Yeah. Okay that's a funny question. And the reason why is that DNR means different things to different people. So Do Not Resuscitate. 

Vonne Solis  43:00  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  43:00  
You're going to have advance directives that say from a health care agent, I do not want you to resuscitate me if I am non communicative, based on these specific criteria. 

Vonne Solis  43:10  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  43:10  
But then you have to start going down that rabbit hole of, Well, what if you might be able to be resuscitated later? So you have to think about that and go to an expert that helps you walk through that, that chain of questions. 

Vonne Solis  43:20  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  43:21  
On the other hand, the Do Not Resuscitate order itself is not something that you create. It's something that is a doctor's order. So what I'd say is, yeah, no matter how old you are, if you're going through this process, you should probably have a better understanding of if and when what happens, what you want to have happen to you. But if you're getting those very nitty gritty questions, you need to work with somebody to help you understand it. Because I can, I can promise you that there are a lot of eventualities and possibilities, that because you haven't gone through this before, not this. I'll draw a parallel that is is a very poignant example of this.

Vonne Solis  43:58  
Okay.

Adam Zuckerman  43:59  
I had a call recently with somebody, and he was an individual that lives in Virginia ... in DC. He was married. He got divorced. He has two kids. He updated his Will, because he got divorced. So now his two children, if something were to happen to him would both inherit 50% of his assets. Fairly easy. And he's okay, I'm good to go. And I asked him if he changed any of his payable on death beneficiaries on his bank account. And he said, No, I updated my Will. But what he didn't realize was that the law is that payable on death beneficiaries get processed as a matter of contract before the will does. So his ex-wife would receive all this liquid cash assets, and his kids would get nothing. So it's really important. It doesn't seem like something that you would have to think about, but he didn't think about it because he didn't know to think about it. 

There are some of these things where it is worth spending the $150 or $500 to get the advice of somebody who specializes in this because they're going to know things that you don't. That's why you're going to them for help. And for us, it's really neat. And this could be the last thing that I say if you want. In America, on average, an estate planning attorney will charge you between $150 and $400 an hour. You can also add packages for an estate planning package. Like a very simple one could be, let's say $1500 to $5,000. That's average, depending on where you are in the country. Which makes our safe preparation package effectively free. Because if you buy it, and then you bring the information that you've already thought through to your estate planning attorney, guess what? They're going to be more efficient and they're also going to be able to serve you better. And that's really why the first step of this is consider, which literally I just came up with as we're talking in three words. So consider what you need. Get organized. Go and create, whether it's yourself or with the help of somebody else. And then make sure that if it's you or them that it gets updated over time, because things will change that you aren't aware of.

Vonne Solis  46:00  
Yeah, I do have one, I do have one thing that I thought of while you're talking. So on your site buriedinwork.com, if people want to DIY, do it yourself, can they download a Will for their estate? Like are the Wills generic? And then just as I say, I can't remember the word you said but binding per state laws? But the Will itself. The document itself, is it generic?

Adam Zuckerman  46:30  
Okay, so we have on our website requirements for each of the 50 states in the country of what makes a will specific. It's summarized information with a link back to the specific legislative text that makes it binding. So which can be difficult to read because it's legalese. Across the majority of states, there are certain things that always are important to consider. So, is the Will something that you have to be of sound mind? Do you have to be 18 or older? Do you have to have witnesses and how many? So while we will not create a Will for you, we do have a template for a very simple estate. That we have said that if you want to conform with the majority of the requirements. The high bar, this is what you should have. So you should be over 18. You should be of sound mind. You should have at least two witnesses because witnesses sign in your presence. You should also have a notary. Those witnesses that are signing should not be related to you. 

Vonne Solis  47:34  
Right.

Adam Zuckerman  47:35  
They should not be beneficiaries. So what we've done, as we said, Here's what are the requirements across as many states as we want, and this should get you there. But even so, we are not your attorney. We are providing legal services. This is up to you to make sure it is valid. And you want to bring that Will to an attorney, they will help you. But oftentimes, what ends up happening is that the attorneys will say, that's a template Will. I don't want to use that because this is putting my name on the line. 

Vonne Solis  48:02  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  48:04  
We can take what what it is if I want this to happen to my estate, and then we're gonna put it into a Will that I'm more familiar with.

Vonne Solis  48:09  
That's fair.

Adam Zuckerman  48:10  
Yep. If you need something, yes you can learn about it. You can see what it is. But take all of that with a grain of salt of what's available. And the reason why is because things change. And we want to make sure that you really do have an attorney who is educated and an expert that can help you out.

Vonne Solis  48:27  
Very, very fair, I agree. Get everything, an expert's opinion. But in the event, someone just does that. Gets a template and we're not giving advice people. I'm just, this is just a general question. General answer. Is a Will that someone just does by themselves. Gets their witnesses who aren't beneficiaries, all of that stuff? And just here's, here's the Will. You know, it's written, you know, you know, witnessed. Is that still relatively binding? Particularly if we're not dealing with tons of assets and that? Just hypothetically, you know? If they write something on a napkin, basically? Can that be considered binding? You know, like, you know what I'm saying?

Adam Zuckerman  49:06  
Yeah, so in some states writing a Will on a napkin may, in fact, be valid. But that's one of the questions that you have to look at the test. Is it a holographic Will? Is it handwritten? Is it an oral will? Was it under duress? Did they sign it? Should it be typed? And this is why we say if you're going to do it, do it right. Because what ends up happening is that you open up your estate for challenges from people. And that's, that's really important. So one thing people oftentimes recommend is, let's say you don't want somebody to get something in your Will? You deliberately leave them $1.00. Because they can't challenge that you specifically forgot and they're due to it. No, no, no. They specifically left them something in their Will. This was intentional of what they left them. But these are the type of things that an attorney will help you figure out and represent you. And I don't want to opine on whether or not that single handwritten, you know?

Vonne Solis  49:29  
Yeah, no, I get it. No, we were, yeah. But it was just it's just interesting to think about that. Then the one really this is the last thing I just want to say, if I can remember. Uh oh. It was it was interesting Oh yeah. Don't you have to go to a lawyer or an attorney or a notary or someone anyway, when someone dies to execute the thing?

Adam Zuckerman  50:05  
No.

Vonne Solis  50:11  
The Will. Oh, you don't  hey?

Adam Zuckerman  50:17  
No. Some Wills depending on where you are. And again, I'm not speaking to Canada, you don't need to have it notarized. Some Wills you don't need to have a self-proving affidavit on it. It really is jurisdiction specific. Sometimes it says, Okay, if you don't have that, you need to have a physician or two physicians in the room that do this and certify that. You have to be of sound mind. Like, there's so many different variables. But the good thing is, is that if you're listening to this, and you're not in a hospital bed right now, or palliative care. You're not in hospice care. 

Vonne Solis  51:02  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  51:02  
You're still alive, you still have time to make a will. 

Vonne Solis  51:06  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  51:07  
So you don't have to rush to do it. And if you do it when you're not rushed you get thoughtful and mindful and really have it reflect what your wishes are. And if you do it in the situation where you're not rushed, guess what? That means that there will be less challenge that you were doing this of unsound mind and have challenges for the Will.

Vonne Solis  51:07  
Yeah. At the very least audience, what I would encourage you to do, definitely go to buriedinwork.com as you can and just pop in and maybe make it like, schedule it in and go, Okay, I'm spending, you know, X amount of time, and I'm working on this piece of whatever documents they got from buried in work. But if you can't even get yourself to do that, start thinking about what you're worth and communicate. Communicate, communicate, communicate, because in time, the actual act of putting it into, you know, documentation might come later. We just really want to get people thinking about and starting this process of understanding their wealth and they're worth right, Adam? That's what I can offer on this episode.

Adam Zuckerman  52:11  
You have to start and it's overwhelming, because there's a lot of stuff that you have to do. You know, the million mile journey starts with the first step.

Vonne Solis  52:18  
Yeah.

Adam Zuckerman  52:19  
You do one bit. You do one little bit. You do one a little bit and suddenly you're 10,000 miles in.

Vonne Solis  52:23  
Exactly. An amazing way to end this episode off. Adam, I think you've covered everything, but I will ask if there if I missed anything that you wanted to talk about, or did we get it?

Adam Zuckerman  52:35  
No, I think the only thing is please come to buriedinwork.com. If you have questions, send us a note. If you have ideas for us that we can make things better for you send us a note buriedinwork.com We're here to make your life a little easier. And Vonne, we really appreciated the conversation today.

Vonne Solis  52:50  
Me too. Thank you, Adam for being here. It's amazing. Thank you. Take care.