Ep. 85 Reflection from the River's Edge: A Journey to Well-Being

In Part 7 of the Soul Sisters series, join me with my real-life sister Brenda Rachel, as we share our personal experiences with trauma, loss, and identity struggles, emphasizing the crucial role of self-reflection and resilience in healing.

Discover the strategies we've used to manage trauma and anxiety, overcome the challenges of living with physical disabilities, and navigating the complexities of the workplace in bereavement.

We also discuss the importance of balancing societal expectations with personal growth and the necessity of redefining traditional success models to achieve personal fulfillment on all levels. Through our experiences, we inspire listeners to harness the power of reflection and resilience, taking essential pauses to recharge, rethink, reframe, and refocus their lives on their journey to holistic well-being.

Connect with Brenda:
https://www.brendarachel4angels.com/

Brenda's book "Broken Spirit, Awakened Soul, My Journey of Healing with the Angels"
https://www.amazon.com/BROKEN-SPIRIT-AWAKENED-SOUL-Journey-ebook/dp/B0CBD3QLW8/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Brenda+Rachel+Broken+Spirit&qid=1701376272&sr=8-1

 Connect with Vonne:
https://vonnesolis.com/

Vonne's books:
https://vonnesolis.com/vonne-solis-books/

Living Meditations on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@livingmeditations

Coaching with Vonne:
Click on the link below to learn about my coaching services and to book a pre-coaching Zoom call if you are a serious student of life. (Limited enrollment).
https://calendly.com/vonnesolis/one-on-one-coaching-with-vonne-solis

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with Vonne on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome.
• 0:08 Stopping at the river's edge and its impact on identity and limitations.
• 9:41 Reacting vs responding to life's challenges.
• 15:23 Anxiety triggers and finding solutions through self-awareness and inner journey
• 20:32 Grief, identity loss, and disabilities.
• 26:17 Living with physical limitations and the impact on mental health.
• 31:12 Trauma, anxiety, and coping mechanisms.
• 37:12 Anxiety, trauma, and submitting to difficult situations.
• 41:37 Coping with disability and loss, resetting life.
• 47:30 Self-care, reframing, and prioritizing personal needs.
• 55:32 Resetting, reframing, and rethinking life goals and priorities.
• 1:01:40 Coping with loss and finding hope through self-respect and advocacy.
• 1:08:32 Grief, trauma, and healing for bereaved parents.
• 1:13:41 Closing.

Transcript

Vonne Solis  0:08  
Welcome to the Soul Sisters series where you'll get thought-driven inspiring topics for your soul. With Vonne Solis and Brenda Rachel.

Vonne Solis  0:30  
Okay, so welcome again to the Soul Sisters series. I'm Vonne. 

Brenda Rachel  0:36  
I'm Brenda and together, we are the Soul Sisters!

Vonne Solis  0:43  
Okay, so we are at Part 7. Last week in Part 6, we actually had an amazing episode. We talked about pain as part of our chosen path. And the paddle and flip drill as an analogy for life. It was a pretty awesome episode was it not? And we covered a lot, a lot of things. So check that episode out, episode out Part 6. 

Today in Part 7, we're going to be talking about stopping at the river's edge. This is an analogy, as was the the paddle and the flip drill from my sister's book that we, she was a rafter. And while you were a rafter. And just as I read her book, some really cool things I got from that. And as I said, check that episode out from Part 6. But stopping at the river's edge is basically a continuation of that. When to stop, why to stop, and what you can do. How to use that rest stop in your life when things don't go as planned. 

So we've talked a lot about in this series, which has just been awesome. And we're actually, we're not quite at the end of it, but we're getting there. And as we've talked, Brenda and I are actual blood sisters, and the whole point of this series is to leave a legacy for each other. But more importantly, it's to share with the or I should say actually just as importantly, it's to share with the audience. You, the similarities that really we have with our siblings, and you know, we're really focusing on on sisters here. If you come from very, very different experiences, and think that you don't understand each other, right? That we really do have more similarities than differences. And it's really learning about each other. Being curious about each other and instead of how siblings can do. Get into judgement and you know, and feel like all the kid things. Everything you acted like as basically a kid. I don't think that ever really changes as adults. It might modify a little bit. 

But anyway, it's to come to understand your sister. And I will say also your brother, if you can have these kinds of conversations with a brother. But the point being is there is estrangement in a lot of families between siblings. We didn't want that. We've both come from different types of dysfunction. But what has bonded us. I mean, obviously being blood siblings is the death of my daughter, Janaya in 2005, when she was 22, to suicide. And I think that probably put both of us in a frame of mind and the rest of our small family that is in constant touch with us to talk about death. To talk about, you know, to not leave things undone. 

And even though we didn't do that 18 years ago, we're at a stage in our life now, where we have decided to create this legacy and share with you as part of that to talk about many, many things that starts at the beginning. Coming from a great deal of dysfunction, and arriving at very similar places, taking extremely different paths. And that is what every episode is dedicated to in various topics that we discover. 

So today we are going to talk all about stopping at the river's edge. And really for me, I want to just sort of open up. So I use the words as a time for reflection, pause. Taking stock. Recharging, resetting, reframing and rethinking who we really need and want to be when life does not go our way. So in my case, it was the loss of Janaya that uprooted me. Laid me flat on my back and sent me on a journey that um, you know, has been mostly about really trying to discover who I am. And as a sibling, you have said, I'm a very different person. I know I'm a different person. But it's different when you have a family member. And frankly, you're the only one that does this for me reflect back how different I am. What you lost as a result of my bereavement. And so that plays an important part in in our Soul Sisters series. 

But on the other hand. The other side of this is all the struggles you've had in your personal life, and because of how different it is, and, you know, being alone for a number of years, and struggling with all the things you've talked about. Your fibro. Your depression. Suicide attempt. You know, I think, did I miss - disabilities. Those would be the biggies sort of posing the challenges for you. Forcing you more than once to stop at the river's edge. And me all the time, stopping at the river's edge. So this is going to be a really good conversation. Because I don't, I mean, I love the analogy. I just love the analogy for stopping at the river's edge. 

Most people don't stop in life period. Everybody's stressed. Everybody, you know suffers some degree of anxiety, anxiousness, worry, fear, particularly in the climate that we're living in the global one. Our, you know, national climates, our community climates. There's problems everywhere you look, there's problems. It's very hard to stay afloat using the river analogy. Very hard to stay afloat sometimes, even the most disciplined of us to stay on track. And Brenda, and I have decades of spiritual practice. Metaphysical interests, and going back to, you know, well our childhood really. And we talked about that in earlier episodes. Couple, our first two episodes. 

So, but it still gets hard. And you have I, you and I have had many conversations together, right? Oh, God, how do we keep going? And we have propped each other up and helped each other sort of get to what the real issue is that's bothering us. And, and then we have to take ourselves to the river's edge, because it's a very private, personal, intimate look within.

Brenda Rachel  7:35  
 Yep. 

Vonne Solis  7:36  
Right.

Brenda Rachel  7:36  
Correct. Absolutely. 

Vonne Solis  7:37  
And so that's my take on stopping at the river's edge. The one thing, the one piece, we could talk all day about it, but the one piece I really want to bring to it is addressing loss of identity and limitations. Well, those are two things. Okay so the so the two things is loss of identity and limitations from something. Doesn't matter where they come from, and what kind of limitations they are. And you've had them too. But I really want to have a discussion around that. You know, how, how I know for me, my limitations, and I'm going to speak about them more from the mental, emotional, but they the mental, emotional effects, the physical. And we've already talked. And the physical effects the mental and emotional, so they all work together. But it can be very, very disruptive to who the heck we thought we were, or wanted to be when something takes us down, or severely limits us when we can't do what we thought we were going to do. And you and I've had many conversations about this. So how about you open it up? And let's get started with you explain what stopping at the river's edge means for you, and how you've had to work with that restive state. And then get yourself kind of out of it too. 

Because we don't want to stay there right? Great. It's kind of like when you get really comfortable and you're on a picnic blanket or you're you know, and we're in any situation. Picture it. The warm sun on your face. The sparkling river. The beautiful rapids going by, right? I should put some sound effects to this. And and it's just really hard to move and get up and you don't want to get up from that spot of safety. That place of safety. That's what the river's edge anyway, so picking it up from there. What does it mean for you? How have you used that restive state?

Brenda Rachel  9:41  
Well, I think the first thing for me in my situation was not that it didn't happen in your situation. 

Vonne Solis  9:47  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  9:47  
But mine, my first awareness of stopping at the river's edge was from a physical disability. And I didn't make a choice consciously. I wasn't aware of making a choice consciously that I was going to be stopped at the river's edge. It just happened to me. So I think for myself, paddling down the river in my raft, and then bingo, I, it was like likening to falling out. 

Vonne Solis  10:21  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  10:22  
And swimming to the edge because I had to use every ounce of my energy that I had for me to actually get to the edge and be able to just sit myself down. And it wasn't even a regrouping. It was just, it was an absolute I had to do it. 

Vonne Solis  10:39  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  10:39  
So for me, I think there's two things with stopping at the river's edge. One is when it's by choice.

Vonne Solis  10:47  
 Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  10:48  
And one one is when it's forced on you. 

Vonne Solis  10:50  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  10:50  
And again, I believe I created all my situations in my life. So I will throw that in now. Because I speak about that a lot through my book. But when this happens, and I wasn't in a conscious state of me creating it in that moment, it felt like it was being done to me.

Vonne Solis  11:11  
Of course.

Brenda Rachel  11:12  
So I was in a reactionary mode. 

Vonne Solis  11:14  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  11:14  
Not in a responsive mode. And so there's two, two ways of coming at something for me when it hits me. 

Vonne Solis  11:23  
Yes.

Brenda Rachel  11:23  
It's, am I reacting to it? Or am I responding to it?

Vonne Solis  11:26  
So I just want to say really quickly, about that. So for audience that might be thinking about this reacting versus responding. So my take well, my experience and my absolute teaching and belief is, whenever we are in shock, trauma. Initial sudden impact of something, we're going to be reacting, because we're going in survival mode. Something dangerous has happened. Something threatening has happened. What my my, how am I going to survive? And your very, very first thing is going to be react.

Brenda Rachel  12:03  
Right.

Vonne Solis  12:04  
Responsive is when we have time and this could even come years after we've discipline ourselves to be responsive. We may still react. Because even when you expect things to happen, you're still going to go into a bit of shock, surprise, whatever. And that's fine. But so getting yourself and I just want to ask if you sort of agree with this. So getting yourself, Okay. I've had the time to react. Now I don't want to live my life like that. Now I need to be responsive. And so I just wanted, do you want to add anything to that difference? 

Brenda Rachel  12:38  
Yeah.

I think now, through everything that I've been through in my life, I, I still react for sure. And yet, however I do it. Most of the time, I'm upset and I go into very, I have anxiety. So I go into heightened anxiety and the worst case scenario. I don't don't think things through. 

Vonne Solis  12:38  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  12:38  
As far as, Okay, step by step by step. 

Vonne Solis  12:39  
Yes. 

Brenda Rachel  12:40  
You're very good in helping me when I phone you up and say, Okay, I'm having a moment here. 

Vonne Solis  12:48  
Yep.

Brenda Rachel  13:06  
This has happened. And then you walk me through it and get me back to being in a responsive mode. And taking action whatever the step is. However, I will say to people out there take as long as you need to be. Don't force yourself. And don't have other people forcing you to being in a place where your mind can't go. And we have to, I think it's very, very important to allow ourselves whether it's grieving. Whether it's sadness. Whether it's despair. Whether it's like with my ill-health, and it hitting me and my whole lifestyle had to change. I became very impaired. From having disabled from my very, very busy busy life had to completely stop to allow the whole process. To to really, so I just wanted to say that to the audience. 

Vonne Solis  14:00  
Yes, of course.

Brenda Rachel  14:01  
Take the time that you need. And don't let anyone say you should be in a different place than what you are or you're taking too long to get over this. Whatever the "this" is. It's it's your life, and you will follow your path however you need to follow it.

Vonne Solis  14:21  
So I just want to say ditto to you know, I'm going through something. We help each other. So we've got a 50/50 in on that.

Brenda Rachel  14:29  
Yeah.

Vonne Solis  14:29  
But the reason we can help each other is because we both understand anxiety, which is different from stress. You know, anxiety for me is just like, you know, you built the mountain out of a molehill and it's never. You're gonna the problem's never gonna go away or you feel trapped or any of those initial, you know, threatening emotions. And we're better at it both. I mean, I'm way way, way better at at sort of digesting and contemplating and thinking, but now you help me understand solutions.

Brenda Rachel  15:03  
Well, yeah, I think the thing 

Vonne Solis  15:04  
You know. 

Brenda Rachel  15:04  
Like that we're good for bouncing that off of each other with you give me options. 

Vonne Solis  15:10  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  15:10  
You point out options. Okay, what are your options here? 

Vonne Solis  15:13  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  15:13  
What's the worst case scenario? 

Vonne Solis  15:15  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  15:15  
What's the best case scenario? 

Vonne Solis  15:17  
Yes. 

Brenda Rachel  15:18  
What scenario are you looking for? 

Vonne Solis  15:20  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  15:20  
What outcome are you actually looking for?

Vonne Solis  15:22  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  15:23  
You know?

Vonne Solis  15:23  
Yeah. And so if you have a buddy, if it's your sister, right? But no, but I mean, someone that is a confident. A strong, confident that really understands because people who don't live with anxiety don't understand anxiety.

Brenda Rachel  15:38  
Right.

Vonne Solis  15:39  
We know that for a fact. 

Brenda Rachel  15:40  
Correct. Correct. 

Vonne Solis  15:41  
And so when you understand anxiety, anxiety, and you can kind of drill down in minutes, sometimes. In seconds, sometimes, what's really going on. What is really, really, really going on here?

Brenda Rachel  15:54  
The root of the fear. 

Vonne Solis  15:55  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  15:56  
Because anxiety is fear-based. 

Vonne Solis  15:58  
Absolutely. 

Brenda Rachel  15:59  
And so there and usually, when we talk through whatever issues at hand for me.

Vonne Solis  16:04  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  16:04  
It won't be anything to do with that, or very little to do with the issue that's going on. 

Vonne Solis  16:09  
Right.

Brenda Rachel  16:10  
It will be some fear that is way bigger

Vonne Solis  16:14  
Yes.

Brenda Rachel  16:15  
than the pending issue.

Vonne Solis  16:17  
And it will be a fear that has probably been with you for a very long time, and may be the result of a trauma. It may be the result of death that caused trauma. And that's why it is so essential that you embark on a and I'm speaking in general terms here. But both of us have done that. Embarked on an inner journey, as soon as you can. As soon as you have been afflicted with whatever is uprooting your life because that's the only way you can really figure out the triggers. Understand the root of the anxiety. And from that, find your solutions.

Brenda Rachel  17:02  
Correct. Correct. 

Vonne Solis  17:03  
And it, listen. It has happened to me you know, as recently as you know, earlier this year, and I was traveling. And, you know, one thing happened that sent me into a complete spiral of absolutely illogical thinking and anxiety, simply because what I was worried about would have forced me to be alone. And I wasn't really sure what I would do in, well it happened in two scenarios if the situation actually manifested I was going to be alone. I was travelling. Would I, in both cases, what action would I take? You know, and so when so that's the thing that happened. But deep down, really what it was, is still feeling pretty shaky as I'm growing and still finding and putting more pieces together of this identity of who I am becoming at this age in this stage. It still felt obviously very shaky, and and not a lot of confidence. Because you see, when you live with PTSD, such as I do, when we have anxiety, it does rob us of our confidence and our feeling safe and secure. Right?

Brenda Rachel  18:24  
Correct. That's a huge one. Safety and security. 

Vonne Solis  18:27  
Yes.

Brenda Rachel  18:28  
Are two issues we both, we go to we both go to a place of fear. 

Vonne Solis  18:35  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  18:35  
When that's unsettled.

Vonne Solis  18:37  
Right. So it could be anything. It could be the fridge breaking. It could be anything. And so it's never about the thing as you say Bren. It's never about the fridge breaking or, you know, I can't find the person I'm travelling with and I'm scared to death that I'm going to be left figuring things out on my own. The trigger really there is the root of it. The anxiety there is, I don't feel safe right now. 

Brenda Rachel  19:02  
Right.

Vonne Solis  19:02  
And then you can find solutions to Okay, and and, you know, whatever it is. You know, so the fridge breaks. Okay, so you find someone you know, that can take your items and you won't lose the food and you won't lose the you know, the freezer and you'll find the money and you know all of these things. But but we can't get in the weeds of it. Because anything can can trigger an an attack of anxiety. 

Brenda Rachel  19:29  
Absolutely. 

Vonne Solis  19:30  
Anything. 

Brenda Rachel  19:31  
Yeah. 

Vonne Solis  19:32  
So the point I want to make here. We went off-side a little bit, but I think it's really important to understand that because that's the kind of thing, that pausing. Understanding if you've had one too many anxiety attacks and you really don't want to be experiencing them in your life anymore. And particularly if you've lived with anxiety for many, many years, right? That's a huge, huge, huge opportunity to go, Okay, river's edge please. Off I go. And I need to what do I need to do? I don't want to live like this anymore. Because it really traps you, doesn't it? 

Brenda Rachel  20:08  
Right.

Vonne Solis  20:08  
Where you feel you have no options. 

Brenda Rachel  20:11  
Exactly. Exactly. And so just so people know in case, you're kind of wondering like, well, I don't live near a river. This isn't about physically going to a river's edge unless that works for you. 

Vonne Solis  20:24  
Yeah, oh yeah.

Brenda Rachel  20:25  
I'm just sitting here going who for the people who are going well that would never work for me. I don't have a river. I live in the middle of the desert. 

Vonne Solis  20:35  
Yeah, yeah. We're all we're we're analogy folks and create it in your mind. The resting place. Whatever. We're doing river's edge. It can be whatever restive spot you want. Time out. Time out. But we're really talking about this as the timeout. The restive spot as frequently as we need it, when let's go back for a minute. When life forces us to no longer be able to do what we wanted to do or be who we were. Such as deaths in, you know, the family. The death of my child forced me to really, I in fact, I lost my identity because I was so wrapped up in my identity of my family, and being a mom of my two kids. My daughter, my son. And they were nine years apart. And so when she died, holy crap. Like I honestly honestly struggled for the first several years, with, well, the first many years actually, with only having one child again. And no longer having a daughter. 

And you know, and so while I'm super grateful for my son, and he knows that. Plus, he won't watch this anyway, I'm pretty sure. But if you do watch, you know how much you're loved. Yeah, but no, it was more about I couldn't stand daughter cards. I couldn't stand the word daughter. To this day, I'm very uncomfortable in the I use the the experience of a nail salon with moms and daughters, you know, chatting away. And I go holy, I've missed all of that. I could be doing that. I really, you know, etc. So that never really probably goes away. And that has completely, so just taking it back for a sec. A step here. So your disabilities, and my loss. And we all we acknowledge, it's not that the death of Janaya did not impact you. 

But for this series, we are using your physical disabilities, to help people that have not been impacted by bereavement from a human loss. And I'm using basically the death of Janaya to use as the example in my life that absolutely was just gut wrenching, and well made me have to rebuild from the ground up. So so when we talk, we can bring out nice wide scope of experiences to benefit you, as the audience in as many ways as possible because we both come from a wealth of different types of limitations, disabilities. 

I don't know if you went through identity loss per se, but I sure as heck did and did not know who I was for many, many years. And I'm in the process of still actually kind of figuring that out. How do I want to be identified? How, what is it I want to do? What can I do because the limitations, which and another point I just want to I want to address here. So we talked in an earlier episode about pain. Part 5, probably also in Part 6, about pain. And when you have a spiritual practice and you're devoted, like we are to the angels, and and this, this contrast between our perfection, right? And we're not going to talk about it today. They're In Part 5 and 6. But our perfection in in the spiritual, our soul, our you know, our inner self. And we know ourselves as perfect that, you know, we put this pressure on ourselves or you know, whatever, expectation on ourselves to represent that physically as well. And so that does play into it. 

So when I use the word limitation here, I know in soul, spirit, right? There are no, the word doesn't exist. It just doesn't exist. And I get that. So I'm using it today because we have agreed also that we must respect and honour the physical experience.

Brenda Rachel  24:43  
Absolutely. 

Vonne Solis  24:43  
Where we freaking are limited in things. You know, I cut my finger I'm going to bleed, right? 

Brenda Rachel  24:50  
Yeah, yeah. 

Vonne Solis  24:51  
So you know, my heart gets broken, I'm going to feel lost and alone and sad and traumatized, and like, it's never going to be fixed. And everything else that comes with that. So a lot of the mental emotional problems that I have had to deal with, and I live with PTSD, and I'm going to own it. And it's not a trendy thing. I was diagnosed in 2014, nine years after my daughter died. Lived with it. It did a lot of damage to my physical body. So those are what created the eventual physical limitations of needing to stop. 

So your disabilities, you're out. Out of the game. I worked for a boss at the time and I when I would get sick and stuff, and I'm out. I'm out! And I'm out of the game for a while. So I just wanted to be really clear about how in a perfect spiritual identity, I guess, or I don't even know how to use that word, but understanding ourselves that way. We would be perfectly healthy. No limitations. Shiny and bright all the time. And you know what I mean? 

Brenda Rachel  26:09  
I do.

Vonne Solis  26:10  
And so I need to always kind of talk about that a little bit because you and I really at our heart, don't believe

Brenda Rachel  26:17  
No, I think

Vonne Solis  26:18  
Do you believe in limitations? After I said all that right? (laughter)

Brenda Rachel  26:22  
I think for me. The Truth of my existence is I came here perfect, whole and complete and that's who I am as a soul. As a spiritual soul on this earth plane. I will, what I will add to what Vonne's just said about her emotional trauma. And so where I was hit the hardest with my physical limitations was when I was told I'd be in a wheelchair. 

Vonne Solis  26:46  
That's it.

Brenda Rachel  26:46  
At the age of 42. 

Vonne Solis  26:46  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  26:48  
And my life changed. That moment when I was with the specialist. And also got the letter. Sorry. I was with a specialist who did all the tests, but then I got the actual physical letter and read the letter. What happened to me was I think that I went into a place of trauma like you. 

Vonne Solis  27:11  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  27:12  
But we're and I was by myself with no family around.

Vonne Solis  27:15  
How old were you again, when you got that news that you'd be, you'd likely end up in a wheelchair? This was from her Fibro.

Brenda Rachel  27:21  
42.

Vonne Solis  27:22  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  27:23  
And so I'm just saying. So I was just as you were speaking

Vonne Solis  27:27  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  27:27  
about limitations and everything and, and things that set us back. I think in that moment, it's just kind of coming to me now as a thought, which I've never thought about, and all these years.

Vonne Solis  27:39  
Hmm.

Brenda Rachel  27:39  
Almost 30 years.

Vonne Solis  27:40  
Gonna be good. Ooh it's gonna be good.

Brenda Rachel  27:43  
That my physical, being told that the prognosis was I would be in a wheelchair. And there was no, it wasn't like in 30 years. It was just, that's your prognosis. I looked at it as like this was imminent. We just didn't know what day it was to be imminent. However, taking it fast forward to my disability of anxiety. So all the things that set me off come from that place as we were talking of the unknown, but it goes back to being told what my prognosis was.

Vonne Solis  28:19  
 Really.

Brenda Rachel  28:20  
Of being told that this is 

Vonne Solis  28:22  
You're going to end up in a wheelchair from your fibro.

Brenda Rachel  28:24  
Right. So so that it's the worst. So whenever anything hits me because I think that I absolutely went into a place of catatonia, or whatever you call it, like where you're just

Vonne Solis  28:36  
Like numbness.

Brenda Rachel  28:37  
 Numbness. You can't like I was barely alive in my mind anyway, because 

Vonne Solis  28:42  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  28:42  
It was like just overtaking my whole body, my pain. And I was so dead. My eyes were dead. Everything was dead. There was nothing there. Really nothing there.

Vonne Solis  28:51  
Would you would you say that that that prognosis like traumatized you? 

Brenda Rachel  28:56  
Correct. 

Vonne Solis  28:56  
Because you've been 

Brenda Rachel  28:57  
That's what that's so that's what I'm getting at. 

Vonne Solis  28:59  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  28:59  
So I think that every time something. I'm just correlating it now. 

Vonne Solis  29:03  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  29:03  
That happens in my life that is you know, like all the things that you know about that have happened to me. That's the place that I go.

Vonne Solis  29:11  
That's the place you go. But what does, I want to say. 

Brenda Rachel  29:14  
Which which there's no hope.

Vonne Solis  29:16  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  29:17  
There's no hope.

Vonne Solis  29:17  
There's no hope. 

Brenda Rachel  29:18  
The prognosis is this is it. You're going to end up like and for me, I'm sorry for you know, nothing. Nothing against anybody that's in a wheelchair. 

Vonne Solis  29:27  
Yeah. Good point. Gosh, good point.

Brenda Rachel  29:29  
This is my life. And for me, because I was so active and so healthy, and all the things the so so so's in front of them, you know, just busy, busy, busy and enjoying loving my life. Loving my life. Studying to be a Religious Science minister. Science of Mind minister. And just everything was going really good in my life when this happened to me. So I was hit like a ton of bricks with this information. And my mind just went into, I can't conceive this. I can't believe this. I don't know what I'm going to do with this information. But my life is done. I'm done. And so, you know, then after a while, then that's when and I was very, very, very sick for two years after I got that prognosis. And that's when I made the choice to commit suicide. 

Vonne Solis  30:20  
Something I'm thinking about here, though, as we speak and I'm thinking about mentors like Rick Hansen, right? Who went on purpose work for decades. And, you know, did all these amazing things when he ended in a wheelchair. Ended up in a wheelchair. 

Brenda Rachel  30:37  
Yeah.

Vonne Solis  30:37  
And there's countless people that have lost limbs, and, you know, and and they've had to dig deep, or maybe not, but they go on. And they're inspirational leaders and respect, respect, respect. 

Brenda Rachel  30:49  
Absolutely. 

Vonne Solis  30:50  
So this isn't about anybody who's living and struggling in a wheelchair and thinking the same thought. This is just a physical experience that threatened Brenda, right? Just like tons of parents lose children to suicide. That was a physical life experience that threatened my existence. So it's the way that we react to these experiences as the minute it happens, and that information goes into our brain, right? And especially for traumatized with it. It's like, I always sort of envision that whatever information, I fed into my brain on that drive down the highway, which took an hour and 15 minutes to reach Janaya's home, where she lay dead. Well, I actually found out she had actually passed away halfway to the city from our home in the country. So everything I told myself, until the moment I learned, she's gone. And then from that moment on to reaching her home, and everything else that happened that evening, and all the memories and the stuff is still there, and I can access that in a heartbeat, very vividly, by the way. And that's trauma. All that's still in me. All that is still in you, if you're going through that. And those things we bury. 

So I'm not sitting here saying I've dealt with it. Oh, contraire. I don't want to deal with any of those feelings, and thoughts and emotions because it, I don't think I can handle it. I could barely handle it back then. And that's why it takes a very, very, we're going off topic a little bit. But it takes a very trained specialist to work with you to take you back to that place of trauma. But that's the same trauma that for millions of people is responsible for all the resulting anxiety and physical illness and it even listen, some people even die from stuff like this, because they really can't handle it. Heart attacks them all this stuff. So we just applaud each other that hey, we're still here and doing it. Slogging it, you know? Not only that, trying to inspire others. So you know, and that's my huge respect for anybody, any of us that make that commitment to just keep going. But do something. Move from reactionary to responsive. Accept that this has happened, and again, stopping at the river's edge. We might as we'll talk about that right now. 

Stopping at the river's edge as many times as you need. Going to your restive place, is what moves us from reactionary to responsive.

Brenda Rachel  33:45  
Exactly.

Vonne Solis  33:46  
As a lifestyle. As a life choice. And then to get us out of those, like you and I still get into the panic. And then you find ways. And it's the dumbest stuff for me that causes my anxiety, you know? 

Brenda Rachel  34:04  
No. And I'm not saying yes.

Vonne Solis  34:05  
No, no, but you're acknowledging that I'm saying that about me.

Brenda Rachel  34:09  
Yeah.

Vonne Solis  34:09  
The dumbest things. Like terrified I'm not going to get these parcels. You know that they're going to get lost in my condo building. Delivered to someone else and they're going to steal them because they're hundreds of dollars when I order my supplements right? So what did I do? After years of having that anxiety and chasing down the the postal carrier and I'm not proud to say I did that. But you know, I could see when they're coming. Run down. Get my parcel. It was ridiculous. And I decided you know what? And my son said mom, sign up for flex delivery. I did. Everything goes to the post office. Anxiety gone. You know? And then I can order without already attaching that anxiety of the parcel may get lost, you know? Which can be a near three week journey of living with until that parcel was in my hands. So that's an analogy, that's a real thing I'm sharing. Think about anything in your life that you might be attaching anxiety to, because of some kind of trauma in whatever way. And if there's more than one, how many there are in your day, right? That might not occur every day. But somewhere throughout the week, or month, or whatever. They're living there alive deep within us waiting to pounce, and throw us in that "your survival mode is alive and well".

Brenda Rachel  35:42  
Yeah, mine are usually always something that happens. That is totally unexpected out of the blue. Some kind that will result in some kind of thing I don't know how to deal with.

Vonne Solis  35:54  
Mmm. 

Brenda Rachel  35:55  
And so that takes me right back to when I got the letter. I didn't know how to deal with.

Vonne Solis  36:02  
Didn't know what, how to deal with it. That's it. And when stuff happens in your world, and not to make light of it, but they're not life threatening. These are just, in reality, for most people would be an annoyance or whatever. But for people who have been traumatized and who have anxiety, or are living with any other kind of disability, disorder. Anything that you know, takes us down, right? Takes us down. You may have complete hopelessness, but not be traumatized. So we're speaking in pretty general terms here. But if the shoe fits, you know, then what we're describing in some way goes, Oh, God, I feel that too. These things only get worse if we can't really look within. And really and any really, also, I think you need someone to bounce ideas off to understand your craziness. Which if people around you don't get it? They're not going to be able to help you because they don't get it. And most of what triggers both you and me, to the ordinary person or when I say ordinary person, let me reframe that. To the person who doesn't suffer anxiety. They think you're ridiculous. Like, what are you worried about? 

Brenda Rachel  37:26  
Yeah. It will sort itself out or whatever.

Vonne Solis  37:29  
You know. What a dumb thing. And then what that makes us do is just kind of feel stupid and or a little crazy or

Brenda Rachel  37:40  
Well no, it doesn't.

Vonne Solis  37:40  
Well it can for people that doesn't understand what's happening to them. You can make yourself feel like you're being stupid.

Brenda Rachel  37:47  
But for me, I'm just saying I don't feel that. I feel not respected and not listened to. And so

Vonne Solis  37:53  
There you go. Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  37:54  
So.

Vonne Solis  37:55  
Which is true. You're not. And I'm not. And by the way, most of bereavement is like that. By the way for really difficult loss that people can't relate to? That's pretty much what that experience is like. And I actually read something recently that kind of correlates with this. And in terms of understanding that all those things that we might equate to just a specific, okay, you react this way when you have anxiety. And then we've given you some examples of things that other people would go, maybe whaaat? Or, like my sharing of needing to go down and, and, you know, be there when the postal carrier is there, and I can see my parcel, and then I'm like, oh, huge relief, right? And I, I'm attaching to that experience, that she must think I'm nuts. And you know, 

Brenda Rachel  38:56  
What? The postal lady?

Vonne Solis  38:56  
Yeah. In the end, she probably didn't care if I was there or I wasn't there. But because it was odd behaviour for most people. Most people in my building do not run down. I was the only one there that I ever, ever saw, run down and chase her. It's not what most people do. They trust and you even trust that your parcels are just going to reach you just fine. It's not an issue for me. So I just happened to choose that particular experience because three times my parcels got lost and delivered to the wrong people in this building. So I had evidence that something could go wrong. And anxiety is often triggered by that. If we've had evidence that something's gonna go wrong, right? There you go. You're gonna worry about it.

So taking this back in the context, though, of whatever is challenging you in that way of either anxiety, illness, anything that's forcing you to react but the other thing I wanted to say about the trauma piece. So you are going to either be react. So you you know, it's the your your fight, flight.

Brenda Rachel  40:04  
Fight or flight.

Vonne Solis  40:05  
Fight flight. But there's also the numbing, which is submitting. It's, it's becoming submissive and then freezing. So there they do talk and by they I mean psychologists and psychiatrists do speak about. And you can research this yourself about this giving into the situation. This submitting to a situation. So they might use examples like for abuse, someone abused will submit to the abuser, in the face of all the trauma because they feel like there is no escape. That's probably where you would find most examples of how they would talk about submitting in relation to PTSD, trauma. But if we take that a little bit back, and, and for those people again, due respect. That's that is wherever the trauma comes from, I have great respect for anybody living with PTSD and being traumatized by any other situation. So I just want to really be gentle and compassion about that. It's a gruelling thing. Gruelling thing. We came from trauma from our very earliest childhood. And, yeah, we just had a lot of trauma. And, you know, we talk about that, in again, the early episodes, one, two. But basically, with a parent that, you know, tried suicide multiple times as we were children, and how that impacted. And is considered huge dysfunction, huge dysfunction. 

But at any rate, what I wanted to say, is this, submitting, and I and I almost want to say. Not diagnosing obviously. Just sharing as my sister, as I would talk to you in any sitting in a coffee shop, whatever. Do you think maybe when you got that letter and saw immediately flash! Wheelchair. Life's over. I can't raft. I can't do you know, you know, my walks. I can't, you know, all the activity, whatever was defining your life at that moment. And in some way both numbed yourself and submitted to it? Submitted to the idea and then that's it. Like, that's it. Like in this static state where.

Brenda Rachel  42:19  
Well, to me, it was just for my own situation, it was the absolute worst prognosis I could have been given. And so just for me. And so it was like a total impairment of my entire life. And with no support. And so zero support. And so for me trying to figure out how was I going to manage

Vonne Solis  42:41  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  42:42  
I, and then I went, do I want to manage? Do I want to live a life like this? And so it was a double-edged question or thought pattern that went through my mind like in seconds.

Vonne Solis  42:59  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  42:59  
It wasn't like I contemplated about do I want to live like this, like, weeks later. It was immediate. As soon as I read the letter. As soon as I read the letter, I can remember exactly you know, having those feelings of, Oh, my God, and just felt like

Vonne Solis  43:17  
my life's over.

Brenda Rachel  43:18  
Yeah. 

Vonne Solis  43:19  
And I felt that way, when I lost Janaya. That's it. I'm done. My life's over. So I'm pretty sure we're not the only two people that something has triggered them in a very large way to go, my life's over. I'll never get out of this. But but the immediate. I'm a big proponent of the immediate. The immediate. If you can even remember, in that moment, the immediate thought, and in ours, it's both my life's over. And then we don't know what we're going to do. So bringing this back in the context of restive space, you can understand and probably relate to, and maybe are even going through how many times we need to get to the shore and rest. And reset for me is about dealing with physical illnesses that have been chronic that are, I think, finally coming under control for me that I have suffered, lived with since 2009. And while that might not sound like a big deal, it's a huge deal when you're trying to carry a job. And you got to be sick all the time. We also talked about this in an earlier episode as well. 

The other piece I want to say about that is that when we don't have a chance to fully experience what's taken us down. I'll just say that for because it can encompass just so many things. And the but you know, in my case bereavement. I can I can't tell you how many people I have met that have gone through severe loss. A loss of a child even and they gotta go back to work as if nothing happened. And in our country, Canada there years later, there might be, I know there's a disability like unemployment sort of disability, pension that you can, insurance you can get for six months. It could be 12 by now. But there are requirements to meet, you know, being eligible for it. And it's not a lot of money. Anyway, so so in, in the moments that we are dealing with something we understand like illness, a disability, I need timeout. I need to reset. That actually might be why we go on disability. That's actually why I went on a two year two year plus disability in 2015. Because I couldn't do it anymore. Carry on this expectation I had put on myself and also life put on me. Job, although I had a wonderful employer that I went through numerous work accommodations, which taught me about one, reframing my experience. I can't work five days a week. Oh, my god. Down to four. And then a year later. I can't work 4 days at the office. Okay, one day at home. And then it got down to finally all four at home. And then it finally and this was over a year period each. Then it got down to disability when I couldn't get out of bed.

Reset, reframe, rethink, reassess, re everything in my life, because that was the end. 2015 was the end for me operating in one period, a certain way that was go go, go go, go go go. And wow! That period at the river's edge lasted about three years?.Well, I did things. But constantly, like you said questioning, who am I? Who do I want to be? Who can I be? And so our rivers, our stop at the river's edge. Our restive space may need to happen daily for a while, as we adjust to our circumstances. What else do you want to say about that you know?

Brenda Rachel  47:30  
I think the one of the things I want to say is that when you have a physical illness, but you don't look ill, and I'm gonna really address this, you can become a target of a lot of discrimination. And because I didn't look ill at all, like I didn't have any I mean, I looked ill myself when I looked at myself, but I had all my limbs. I could dress myself, do my hair and go to work. And I worked in a really, really large office. 350 people and put on my smile every day, and did my job and stuff like that. But I think that I always felt that there were there were judgments because people didn't a) understand. I a) didn't talk about why I was off work. My employer knew because obviously of my medical information going through the insurance company to them and stuff like that. 

But you can, I think it's really, really important that we don't know, just because a person appears well?

Vonne Solis  48:45  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  48:45  
And appears even with like Vonne's bereavement. Even when, you know, she did dress herself to go to work and go to the office and stuff. Nobody knows what, what's behind the package. And so when we're speaking to another person, we have no idea what's going on in their life or has gone on in their life. And so I just always try to really be be present with whoever I'm talking to. Whether it's a new person I run into, or it's been somebody from my past or whatever, which there's not very many people like that. But we just don't know. We don't know what another individual has experienced in their life. And just because they look well, doesn't mean they are well. So

Vonne Solis  48:45  
Yeah. So when we think at the top of the hour here, so we're gonna have to kind of think about closing this one out, but it's such a massive topic. It's such a massive topic. So when we think about and I have to read what I wrote here, but you know, reset, reframe, rethink, recharge. You know, to be who you really need to be and, and then eventually who you want to be. So my sort of understanding and using these restive spots, which by the way, when I was going through them, I didn't really think of them that way. So what we're sharing today is kind of a reframing and a rethinking about taking time out for oneself. 

So my current situation would be more related to business. My personal life right now is pretty, you know, I retired in 2017, from a job that I had. And you're retired. So we both are able to live retired, if you will. We're talking economically retired, so that we don't, neither of us don't have to go out and work for someone else. So everything we choose to do, we're blessed with being able to decide how we want to spend our days. So if I want to work 70 hours a week on my podcast, or you know, in coaching, or anything I'm doing well, that's up to me. But the rethinking that has had to occur regularly. Regularly, since I started to become more public with my work. Because the demands of the business models that almost anybody in business leadership teaches, I can't keep up. I literally can't keep up. 

And the problem with that is anything in any area of our life, where we're using the regular model. The success model, right? If you can't literally keep up with it, or believe you can't, then it does set us up for this feeling of failure and I'm out. I'm out! And using that when I was out, right? I had to be passed over for promotions, for example. I actually really at that time, you know, if I'd wanted to change jobs, I remember once had an opportunity to switch, not the employer, but the department I was working for, because I was with government. They had never heard of anybody working four days a week. And I was like, and it was a place I thought I really wanted to work. And so right there, you're told, right? Not as bad as you know, necessarily, you're never you know, you're going you're never going past the wheelchair. So give it all up now. We're shown, not just told, but we're shown in many ways when we are living what we think is less than our capacity, or what really is less than what we used to do, because of what's happened and how it's changed us. We're shown in multiple ways that you're not at the top of the pack. And if you want to be at top of the pack. You want to be the most successful financially, career wise. Get on the stage and be this you know, vivacious personality and all this sort of stuff. You need to do X, Y and Z to get there and stay there. Now that's I'm I'm talking in our culture in North America. I'm not sure what it's like in Europe. I'm not sure what it's like in Asia. I just don't know. But I do believe that there are pressures. Very similar pressures in many cultures around the world, just because of our modern times. 

Brenda Rachel  53:37  
Yeah. 

Vonne Solis  53:38  
And so rethinking, reframing, resetting, recharging. All of these things I honestly think I do. I said earlier, maybe I don't do them on a regular basis but I almost think I do it daily. Now that I think about it, I think I actually think about it before I even get up in the morning. And I take a few minutes, and I go, What do I feel capable of today? How do I really want to plan because also a lot of life, especially for people who are working. Managing kids, doing whatever, you're planning ahead. Sometimes a year ahead. When are you going to take the next vacation? You know, but you're you're slotting all these things in and responsibilities and obligations to care for multiple you know, you know, responsibilities, tasks, children, spouses, homes, jobs, etc, etc. Whereas you and I don't really have that. We only have to really kind of worry about ourselves. So I do feel it's kind of luxurious at this stage. But it's still important for us is it? Is it important for you still to rest, pause, rethink, reframe sometimes?

Brenda Rachel  54:52  
Oh absolutely, absolutely. And also too, like with, I really respect and listen to my body And I know when I can't do something. So we will maybe plan something and we always give each other, always give each other the luxury of saying, Only if we're up to it. 

Vonne Solis  55:11  
Yeah, that's right. We got to add respect in that group of "R" words. Respect at the top of it. Because I think it's just really essential we respect where we are. And we do do that. We're not struggling, but there were years I didn't. 

Brenda Rachel  55:28  
Yeah.

Vonne Solis  55:29  
God, I think we were both so hard on ourselves. 

Brenda Rachel  55:31  
Well, I think it's conditioning when you work in an office like I did for my entire life. 

Vonne Solis  55:37  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  55:38  
And you go at a pace. 

Vonne Solis  55:39  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  55:39  
And when you leave in the morning  early, really early, you know, commute? 

Vonne Solis  55:42  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  55:43  
Do all your hours. Long commute home? 

Vonne Solis  55:45  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  55:45  
You know? And then turn around and do it like five days a week? You're, you're in that pace mode. You just go at that pace, pace pace. And so I think once I was able to give myself the opportunity to actually have my own pace, I still had activities I wanted to do.

Vonne Solis  56:04  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:04  
I still had like, a curriculum for myself. 

Vonne Solis  56:07  
Yeah. I love how you say that. A curriculum. 

Brenda Rachel  56:09  
It took me some time. 

Vonne Solis  56:10  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:10  
To realize that I couldn't keep up with my curriculum. 

Vonne Solis  56:16  
Yeah. 

Brenda Rachel  56:16  
Right? And then I had to modify it. And now I don't have one. Now, you know, I really don't. And 

Vonne Solis  56:21  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:21  
I, I plan. I plan things knowing I want to keep certain commitments. 

Vonne Solis  56:28  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:28  
Those I will keep.

Vonne Solis  56:29  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:29  
Unless it's really I really can't keep them. Like doctor's appointments. 

Vonne Solis  56:32  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:33  
Our podcast, you know, things like that. But still giving myself permission if I had to cancel anything? 

Vonne Solis  56:38  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:38  
I cancel it. 

Vonne Solis  56:39  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  56:40  
Or change change it. 

Vonne Solis  56:41  
Yeah. So because this topic is so huge, we might have to come back next episode and finish off a few things. Because the one thing I want to leave you with audience is that wherever you are, you've never thought about resetting, reframing, rethinking, redoing your life. Re anything, but ultimately respecting yourself and where you are and honouring that. It is the years ago, years ago, I absolutely instilled within myself and it has become a foundation of all the work that I do is respect where you are. Respect where you've come from. Rrespect where you are today. And give yourself room to slowly grow into that. And it's okay if you've got to set the, if the if the goalposts, goalposts, quote, unquote, for those on audio, change. Those goalposts change.

For a long time, I really actually didn't like the word goal. I liked intention. But then I read something from somebody, I sort of follow her work and, and she loves the word goal, because it kind of keeps you a little bit accountable, but just make them that the goal is not the end result. The goal is just the feeling you want. And then you strategize and find the solutions to get to that feeling, you know? To that that outcome. And you know, she she used an example of wanting to lose weight. And so a person would say, you know, set the goal to lose weight. But really she reframes it. The goal is really, really how do you want to feel when you lose weight? So losing weight is not the goal. It's how you want to feel when you lose that weight, or when we do anything. Let's move it out of that and just, I want to do and I'm going to make this a goal. Then I've learned to now focus on oh, what feeling am I looking for, from wanting that goal? So the intention, I guess I would probably now describe as I'm intending to have this feeling in my life to create this change in my life. And then the goal would be to ensure I make that happen for myself to the best of my ability.

And so wherever you are in your life, I want to leave you with all of the things we just talked about for yourself. All the "Rs" with respect at the top for where you are. What you've gone through. What you can do. What state you're in, you know? Let it be okay. But do, do at least own the fact that you're the one that is responsible. Another "R" for deciding how long you want to stay in that restive place. Because we don't want to get trapped there do we? Like I said right at the beginning. Nice, comfortable, you know? The little trickle of the currents. The sun on your face. Soft blanket.

Brenda Rachel  1:00:05  
Well, I, I think it really depends. Because I was just gonna say it, you know, setting goals and things like that. One of my goals is just to have a peaceful day. So I don't look for a big achievement.

Vonne Solis  1:00:20  
Yeah, but I'm not talking about that. So I'll back that up. So I'm not talking about that goals like and this. I'm talking about the restive space now, as one where you get to the bank, and you maybe don't think you can get yourself off the bank, again. Back into your you know, because it takes a lot of work just to, so I think what I'm trying to say is, even when we do reframe, rethink, reset, you know, pause. Sometimes you still gotta go back out there and the very thing that caused us to go, and rest is still there. But what maybe has changed is our mental approach to, I don't want to stay here, but some things force us to be in that same situation we're resting from, still for a little while longer. 

Brenda Rachel  1:01:20  
Okay.

Vonne Solis  1:01:21  
Do you get what I'm saying?

Brenda Rachel  1:01:23  
I do. But, again, I think it's a person has to decide for themselves if it's a busyness and a doingness, or is it just a contemplative thing. So is it a, you know, is it an action step that they're looking for, that they need to take in their life? Or is it a "being", you know?

Vonne Solis  1:01:42  
And I think that changes wherever we are. So you're resting at the river's edge was forced on you when you had your disabilities, and I'm thinking of your feet. You couldn't walk. You're out. My illnesses. I'm out. And and just using that analogy, that's we're at the rivers bank.

Brenda Rachel  1:01:59  
Right.

Vonne Solis  1:01:59  
And as you said, back in the beginning of this, some things force us to be at the river's edge. Other times we choose now to go at the river's edge.

Brenda Rachel  1:02:09  
Right. 

Vonne Solis  1:02:09  
So speaking to those of you, in the audience that are being forced to stop. You, I'm going to inspire you to think about all the things that maybe physically, you can't change in your life right now, but mentally, and emotionally make a commitment to yourself, that this isn't where you want to stay stuck. And an example for me, right from the beginning of understanding, when I heard the news, my daughter was no longer alive. Right? Very, very traumatic. My life is over, I think. But it wasn't long before I, you know, digested the information, and just who I am at my core, that might topple someone else forever. And that's what I'm talking about. They're in that state. Being thrown onto the river's bank, you know? You're there. And there are people that don't want to get up off of that place. And not understanding the opportunities that resting at the river's edge can give them. And I had it within me. Intrinsically within me to know, I couldn't stay out of the game.

Brenda Rachel  1:03:32  
Right.

Vonne Solis  1:03:32  
Like, but only I could slowly but surely, however long it took. And there was no goal setting. I don't, I don't basically set goals in my life. But I do have intentions. But there are people, we live by goals. Traditionally, culturally, goals are huge. And so I'm only really talking about goals as part of the language that people are used to. Even much more so than intentions. Certainly, when you're working and yep! On the clock. And you know, and you know, in some places, timeout costs you big time. Like you can't afford to take it. And so for those of you who may be watching this or listening to this and going, great that that you sisters are in a place where you can reflect all you want. But we've been there where you couldn't. 

Brenda Rachel  1:04:24  
Right.

Vonne Solis  1:04:25  
We know what we're talking about.

Brenda Rachel  1:04:27  
Already. We've already done our dues.

Vonne Solis  1:04:29  
Bereavement in Canada, you get three days. And you'd have to make special arrangements, if it's a child, okay? And then you have to go on sick leave., And then how many sick days do you have? And then if you don't have enough sick days, you know, you are going to be docked pay. And when our mom died in 2010, I was not, I was working for a different employer. And I was not aware of what I was entitled to, to take time off to deal with the death of her. And all of those, all of that time I took off, which probably ended up being about two weeks. 10 days working days, I did it without pay. And what was so sad in that employment setting was not my boss and not human resources. No one came to me and said, You know what? Bbt we're really sorry for this. You're in shock. You're in maybe a bit of trauma. I don't know. I was so traumatized by my daughter's death at that point that, you know, it maybe I was. Maybe I wasn't. But dealing with that the options and the actual information wasn't even made clear to me. And I'll bet you more than one of you are going yep!

And so we do have to advocate for ourselves. Educate ourselves. Advocate for ourselves. And I found that all the advocating I did for myself. found out what my rights were. What I was entitled to in work accommodations, and things like that. And my employer was happier than ever to help me once I helped them understand what I needed. But boy, was that taxing. When you have to be your own advocate? Reframing what you need. Rethinking what you what you want. Resetting what you can do, right? All of these are "Rs" right? It's really hard doing that by yourself when you're already feeling down and out, and vulnerable and weak, and even threatened by loss of income. Loss of opportunities. Lots of things. It's just really tough. 

And this is where we need a community and we need to help each other. Right? And and obviously, I could say, well, we all need change in you know, the policies and work policies and compassion and empathy. But that's just a complete other area I don't work in. So yeah. So I feel like we barely touched this topic. And so next time, we might have to just sort of pick up just a little bit, and maybe not. Maybe we've given everybody and I hope we've given everybody enough information, because this feels like kind of a longer episode. I would really encourage you if, if what you're hearing resonates with you to you know, keep this one, you know, available to revisit different sections of it. You know, use the timestamp. Use the chapters on audio and come back and sort of whatever Brenda and I are talking about that may resonate with you, maybe you'll hear it differently. Sometimes the the more you hear something, the more that you move through different phases, you can hear it differently. But ultimately, I guess my message is, don't lose hope.

Brenda Rachel  1:07:54  
I think that's an excellent one. And the other thing I was going to say is just as Vonne was saying earlier in the in the discussion is respect yourself. 

Vonne Solis  1:08:05  
Oh, gosh, yeah.

Brenda Rachel  1:08:06  
You know, a lot of us, we don't really even understand what that is. We talk about respect and like, you know, others respecting us and all that kind of stuff. You don't respect me, and all this kind of stuff. 

Vonne Solis  1:08:18  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  1:08:18  
But hey, do I respect me? 

Vonne Solis  1:08:20  
Yeah.

Brenda Rachel  1:08:21  
That's a huge thing you know? And when I respect me, and get really clear on what my needs are, then it's it helps with the decisions I need to make. 

Vonne Solis  1:08:32  
Exactly.

Okay, because this has been, as we've already kind of skirted around a huge topic. And one for both Brenda and I and we've both lived years with this, this struggle. This idea of pushing through what starts out as absolutely not possible. Absolutely. losing hope. My life's over. And again, due respect for anybody that what you know, that is going through anything difficult. But the thing that when we're just talking about respect for ourselves? The thing that happened to me is, and I'm briefly going to talk about this, and we'll delve into it more next episode in Part 8. But you know, for the first few years of my bereavement, I did everything I could to make other people who had lost more than one child or their child had been murdered. Or, you know, in whatever way it seemed more tragic than the suicide of my daughter at age 22, I made their experience worse than mine. And I did that for enough years, but it simmered underneath. 

You know how we were talking about earlier how thoughts simmer underneath us for sometimes decades? And until we understand what simmering under there, we can't really, really deal with the pain, that that's causing us on top of other pain. You know, layers and layers of it. And somebody actually, and I believe it was a therapist actually helped me see how much I was devaluing my own grief and bereavement. Because part of this idea, like I can't get myself stuck at the river's edge. I've got to keep, you know, going for, you know, to be the best I can be and heal and all of these things, right? I wasn't giving myself and my experience and my loss and my trauma, the due respect that it needed. 

And when I finally in around 2018, kind of sat and became very restive with that. Very respectful. And it actually turned into my last book, which was written largely for bereaved parents who lost, have lost a child for suicide. Lessons in Surviving Suicide, A Letter to My Daughter, but it was in writing that letter to my daughter, about how I really felt. All those things that had been buried within me. And I had a sort of, you know, topical understanding of what the emotions were. What that pain was, but really, really, really, you know, dissecting that by going as deep within as I could. 

And so when Brenda and I talk about, about, this, you know, the lighter what seem like the lighter pieces of it, we do not intend and in any way mean, it's just stop and rest at the river's edge, and everything's going to be okay. No! Summing it up. I do it daily, as I said, pretty much. Things change, about what we're reflecting on, and maybe reframing and rethinking and all of that. But it still takes that same courage. That same, oomph! That same whatever is driving us from the very initial trauma. The thing that rocked our world. It still takes that same initiative and everything that, you know, is comprised of initiative. Whatever, that willingness. A ton of things. Would you agree?

Brenda Rachel  1:12:23  
I would. Absolutely. 

Vonne Solis  1:12:24  
So we've definitely spent a wonderful time here with each other and with you. And we're going to continue this conversation in Part 8 on our next episode. We're going to focus a little more though, on when you absolutely can't see your way out of the struggle. Take you back a little bit to the beginning of this idea, this stop, you know, rest. And if you physically, literally feel stuck. Feel stuck in an environment. Feel stuck in a struggle that's a relationship. Feel stuck in a struggle, conflict with yourself about what you think you can or can't do. Want or don't want. And you know, you are frustrated. You are depressed. You are hopeless. You are anything but inspired. We're going to pick it up from there and give you some, you know, hopefully, thought driven ideas to understand that you don't have to stay in that frame of mind. There are things that you can do to keep yourself going. And we're going to talk about how we did that for ourselves.

Brenda Rachel  1:13:41  
Well I was just going to say we've both been there. 

Vonne Solis  1:13:44  
We certainly have.

Brenda Rachel  1:13:45  
We we know what we're talking about. 

Vonne Solis  1:13:47  
We certainly do. So I hope you join us for that episode. And if you haven't seen any of the earlier episodes, I hope you take a moment to go visit any of the ones that we're presenting here on the Soul Sister series. And until we see you next week, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.

Brenda Rachel  1:14:05  
We are the Soul Sisters! Love you sis.

Vonne Solis  1:14:08  
Love you too. See you next time.

Brenda Rachel  1:14:12  
Bye.