Ep. 82 Grief: What's Your Story? (Part 1)

The journey of grief, loss, and personal growth is deeply individual and often marked by profound experiences. Ashmeeta's story is a poignant example, having lost both her parents and unexpectedly in 2019, her husband at a young age.

As an expat living in the USA, she understands how grief can create additional stressors around cultural identity and isolation, adding layers of complexity to the healing process.

Yet with an abundance of resilience and raw vulnerability, Ashmeeta shares how she learned to embrace her most difficult losses (her mother and husband) and offers a masterclass to help anyone discover their own resilience and find hope in this two-part interview series.

While much of the discussion focuses on spousal loss, all of what we talk about offers a powerful and impactful discourse to help anyone navigate their grief journey from any form of loss, which is always filled with sorrow and change and embrace their new reality.

In Part 1, we explore the complexities of grief and emotional triggers, and how by understanding your thought process, you can develop greater self-awareness to help you adjust to your new reality.

Note: Part 2 drops May 15th, 2024!

Connect with Ashmeeta:
https://storyoutellyourself.com/

Connect with Vonne:
https://vonnesolis.com

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with Vonne on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and introduction to episode.
• 1:07 Grief, loss, and personal growth with Ashmeeta.
• 4:19 Loss and grief, and Ashmeeta’s experiences with the death of her mom and husband.
• 7:44 Grief, loss, and cultural identity as an expat.
• 13:19 Grief, self-awareness, and emotional triggers.
• 17:28 Grief and personal growth.
• 24:51 Grief, loss, and the long and difficult journey towards resilience.
• 28:27 Coping with loss and embracing reality after a spouse's death.
• 35:32 Grief and growth after unexpected parent death.
• 38:32 Ashmeeta's resources.
• 39:11 Closing.

Transcript

Vonne Solis  0:00  
Welcome to another episode of Grief Talk. Everything you want to know about grief and more. I'm your host, Vonne Solis. As an author, mentor and bereaved mom since 2005, through guest interviews and coaching, here's where you'll always get great content that is inspiring and practical to help you heal after loss.

Vonne Solis  0:21  
Today's guest is Ashmeeta Madhav. A resilience and grief support advocate, educator, entrepreneur and author marked by loss experiences including miscarriage, rejection, her parents and husband. These challenges immersed her in the depths of intense grief, leaving her feeling stuck and adrift. Ashmeeta embraced the path of self-discovery, recognizing the vital role of personal growth and the profound impact that our thoughts have on shaping our reality. Her book, What's Your Story? is designed to bring comfort, inspiration and guidance to empower people navigating difficult times, discover the strength within themselves, to foster resilience and create a meaningful life. 

Vonne Solis  1:07  
So welcome to the show Ashmeeta. It is so wonderful to finally meet you after connecting a little bit a little bit ago. So welcome to the show. It's gonna be a good episode.

Ashmeeta Madhav  1:17  
Thank you for having me Vonne.

Ashmeeta Madhav  1:18  
You're very welcome. So as I said in the introduction audience, Ashmeeta does have experience with different types of loss. Ashmeeta, I'm just going to briefly recap here. So definitely a miscarriage. Which is not something I really deal with on the podcast, but it is worthy to note. Because it forms part of your trauma and background story of loss. You have had rejection. And boy, well, again, that's an episode all on its own. I want to acknowledge that because it's very important how we go through grief, what we think of ourselves. And we may actually have an opportunity to talk a little bit about that in this episode. You lost both your parents and your husband. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  2:07  
So you were widowed early in life. And right? And while I have done a couple of other episodes on spousal loss, losing a spouse early is it's it's its own. It's It's its own category. And I'm not saying it's more difficult for the person who's been married for decades, and then the spouse has passed. But when you don't expect it, and I believe that you your husband did die from cancer. So you were also caregiving. And so there's a whole there's a whole grief around that right? When because he was terminal cancer, right? 

Ashmeeta Madhav  2:44  
Yes, pancreatic. 

Vonne Solis  2:45  
Yeah. So I'd like to just invite you to start. We are going to be talking audience about those losses for Ashmeera. We're going to be talking about how thoughts shape our reality. And through this episode, we're going to build to the whole idea that no matter what we've come from, our thoughts are incredibly important and Ashmeeta does do work in this area. And we're going to talk about from her perspective, and her experience and her teaching, how thoughts really do shape our reality. And we're going to be talking about your book Ashmeeta, What's Your Story? And how that is inspiring for others, and what they can take from Ashmeeta's book and also the community that you serve. And, hopefully a little bit of caregiving, and not to lose yourself, if you are in that role of caregiving. As Ashmeeta was and probably millions of others caring for a sick, terminal loved one. And it's just so easy to lose yourself. 

Vonne Solis  3:48  
So let's get started Ashmeeta. And I would just like to invite you to go back wherever you want to start, where you recognized grief in your life. And even if it was later. Looking back and going, that experience impacted me. Traumatized me even maybe. But really basically shaped you to what would be, I'd say your lowest point. Or, at least to the point where you recognized you needed to change and transform.

Ashmeeta Madhav  4:17  
Sure. So I would say in my case with the various different experiences that I've had with loss, the one that stands out. The one that kind of really played a number on me. They all played a number on me. But the one that really, really pushed me out of my comfort zone and pushed me out of, yeah, was the loss of my husband. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  4:46  
I mean, I felt really, really lost when my mom passed away. I was a young mom. The boys just started elementary school. We moved to a new country. All of that kind of stuff. So it was a new, a whole new experience for us as a family in a new country. 

Vonne Solis  5:07  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  5:07  
And in like a year later, I found out that my mom passed away. 

Vonne Solis  5:11  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  5:12  
You know, just suddenly passed away. So I had to go back to South Africa, which is where I'm originally from. 

Vonne Solis  5:18  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  5:20  
And it all happened in like a week. And my mom, just a little bit of history there. My mom was actually my best friend. I had felt that connection with her. The connection with her became really strong, especially during the times when I was going through rejection. When I had my first miscarriage. She was the one person who unconditionally was there for me and didn't try to fix me. 

Vonne Solis  5:46  
Yes.

Ashmeeta Madhav  5:47  
It just naturally, it's, it's a mother. I, you know, I don't want to go into all that but. 

Vonne Solis  5:53  
Yeah, I just want to actually pause for a quick sec on that one. Because when did your mom die? What year?

Ashmeeta Madhav  6:00  
2008. 

Vonne Solis  6:01  
And no doubt that still impacts you. I mean, the loss of her. You, you've lost your best friend. And so I just want to acknowledge here for people that I think we're culturally. Certainly in North America. Kind of expected to sort of get over it quickly. Because they were expected, especially if it came from older age, and natural causes. Well, they lived a good life. How often do we hear that? But

Ashmeeta Madhav  6:28  
All the time.

Vonne Solis  6:29  
I know. But our moms, really, they are our pillars all through our life. And it is most unfortunate for those of us who do lose our moms after an already traumatic death such as I did. My mom died five years after my daughter's suicide. And I didn't ever get to grieve that. So I really, cause there were too many losses. My dad died, you know, two and a half, a year and a half after my daughter. So there were just so, her best friend died. Her father died. There were so many things that happened. 

Vonne Solis  7:07  
When my mom died, I don't think I've ever understood the grief associated with that. And so I do want to acknowledge it here on both sides. You could cause, you could before you got traumatized by your husband's death. And so our moms are like, I guess you feel just completely lost without her, yeah?

Ashmeeta Madhav  7:30  
I have totally felt absolutely lost. Because, you know, when I say best friend, it's not just the word best friend. It has more to it than just a friend. Because the relationship is so close and so intense. She's seen me in my vulnerable, Oh, my God. 

Vonne Solis  7:49  
Oh, that's okay. Take a moment.

Ashmeeta Madhav  7:50  
In my vulnerable moments, you know? 

Vonne Solis  7:52  
Yeah. Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  7:54  
I really needed someone to be there for me and I couldn't really turn to anyone. No one around me was understanding me. 

Vonne Solis  8:01  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:02  
I expected people around me to understand, Oh, my God. This happened to me. I didn't do this to myself. This happened to me. Feel sorry for me. Somebody. You know, show some emotion towards me. But nobody does that. Nobody and 

Vonne Solis  8:15  
Nobody does it like a mom. Right?

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:18  
And it's not (indecipherable) to point any fingers at anybody to say, oh, you know, caring for me. That's not the space that I'm coming from at all.

Vonne Solis  8:24  
I know. It's venting. Isn't it venting Ashmeeta?

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:28  
Yeah, yeah. 

Vonne Solis  8:29  
Yeah?

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:30  
Mothers know how to take it. Just take it. Accept it and not to judge you or make you feel like you're a bad person for feeling or having the thoughts you're having at that given moment.

Vonne Solis  8:43  
Right. So let's pay, let's pay respect to moms here just for a moment. Because your children are a little bit older now. Right? They're young adults now? Are they? 

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:53  
My youngest is 12.

Vonne Solis  8:54  
Oh okay. And how old are the other two? 

Ashmeeta Madhav  8:56  
21 and 19.

Vonne Solis  8:57  
Okay. So even so, you know. All through their life, we will be sounding boards for our children at whatever age. And I find it a blessing my son at 31, almost 32. He still needs to vent. And you know what? I'm just getting better at learning to go, let him vent. Don't even counsel. This, you're just here. And that's what when that goes? It's one of the reasons I want to stay on the planet as long as I can. To be that for him. You know? Okay, I want to stay for my own life too. But you know what I mean? 

Vonne Solis  8:58  
It's like so really, let's let's catch a breath here and I won't stay on that. But people, audience. If you've lost a parent and you may feel this way about your dad audience. And may have a maybe a stronger connection with your other parent. But it in any way that we lose them. So culturally, I'm going to take a stand and I think I Ashmeeta, you would agree with me. It isn't that they've had a good long life or in some cases, well, they got sick so it's better they've gone. They're out of their pain and all that kind of stuff. There is really, to my knowledge, nothing on about how we actually become adult orphans. Right? But it's, but it's the truth. 

Vonne Solis  10:22  
And if we've had a parent to steer us. Guide us, you know, and that's gone, we're like, on our own without that oarsman. Oarswoman. And I think the other thing is, it does make us face our own mortality. I really do. So anyway, I just want to say that. 

Vonne Solis  10:41  
Okay, so Ashmeeta, so very, very impacting loss for you. And I also want to give a nod. The other thing when I, when I, you know, when we connected, is this idea of being in a country as an expat. And I've lived it. I was in the diplomatic corps for five years. And I know, that's not very long but there are people that spend a whole lifetime. And I know exactly what you're talking about, when you have nothing culturally familiar. The same network. Nothing. And that in itself can present its own grief. Did that impact you? Like I know, it impacted you and how you were going to have to deal with your the loss of your mom. The loss of, the illness and loss of your husband. But did you ever form a community or do you still struggle with that?

Ashmeeta Madhav  11:32  
Yeah that is something that I do still struggle with, honestly, speaking. I've been living in the US for more than 10 years now. And I stilll struggle with that. But I have found and I think anybody who moves from one country to another country, and you know, makes a home for themselves in a new country. Over time, they find, they find in themselves ways to include themselves or to um, they find places where they can make friends. And having said that, for me, it appeared in my life in the form of my children's friends' parents.

Ashmeeta Madhav  11:33  
I didn't go like out into the community and like, you know, through maybe a religious organization, or any of that kind of stuff. That was not my case. In my case, my kids make friends with someone. And then that spending time. And then 

Vonne Solis  12:24  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  12:24  
over time the parents, you know. So I have lived in California. I have two really, really, that was my first state that I lived in when I moved to the US. 

Vonne Solis  12:33  
Okay.

Ashmeeta Madhav  12:34  
Really good, close friends, that I made there.

Vonne Solis  12:38  
Good.

Ashmeeta Madhav  12:39  
Then when I was in Michigan, because my husband's job moved us around quite a bit. When I moved to Michigan, I had got a good number, at least about three or four friends that I became close with there. And the nice thing about it is what I really like about it is that all of them are from different cultures.

Vonne Solis  12:59  
Did all of them stick with you and to today through the loss of your husband and your grief? 

Ashmeeta Madhav  13:06  
Yes.

Vonne Solis  13:06  
Then they're true friends? Yes? True.

Ashmeeta Madhav  13:09  
One of them had actually moved out of Michigan because her husband's job also, you know, he moved jobs. Our husbands are always changing jobs. But we go with them because they have the earning potential. And they have the careers right?

Vonne Solis  13:19  
That's right. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  13:19  
So we go with them. And we just stay in the background with the families and making sure all on the homefront, everything is fine. And when my husband passed away, they drove. They drove all through the country. I can't remember but from Pennsylvania. And they drove all the way to come, you know. And I was just totally, totally taken by that. Just the various blessings and graces that have come into my life. You know, I have a lot of gratitude for that. They didn't need to come. Nobody owes anybody anything. Nobody owes me anything.

Vonne Solis  13:51  
Let's move to that just briefly. We are going to get to your husband, but I don't want to little pile it on too quickly. This idea though, nobody owes me anything. You know if you can adopt that. Tell me how you feel about this Ashmeeta. If you can adopt that as early on in your grief or any struggle? Wow. I mean, because so many people when we're vulnerable and weak. I was just talking to someone and she said we're like wounded, injured animals in our early grief and waiting for people to save us. But here's the thing, people. They're not going to save us. Nobody wants to save us and nobody can save us. So you knowing that already. When did you really accept in your life that, nobody owes me anything?

Ashmeeta Madhav  14:41  
I think I was slowly accepting it from way before when my mom passed away, but it really hit home and became a ingrained in me when my when my husband died. Because that had such a direct impact in my life when my husband died, that I had to reframe my expectations. I had to reframe the way I think. I had to reframe my yeah. Basically my expectations of the way I view myself. 

Vonne Solis  15:14  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  15:15  
Yeah, it's different situations. And it's it's not something that you just make up your mind. Okay, this is it and I'm going to do it.

Vonne Solis  15:21  
No.

Ashmeeta Madhav  15:21  
One time I found myself in a different situation. For example, if I found myself in a situation with a family member and a married couple. A family member (indecipherable). 

Vonne Solis  15:32  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  15:33  
And here I am sitting there interacting with them and suddenly out of the blue, they may do something that shows affection towards each other, or whatever it is. And here I am sitting there. And I get triggered. 

Vonne Solis  15:46  
Yes. Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  15:48  
What do I do? I mean, is it right for me to get triggered? Yes. This is an authentic emotion that I'm having. Right? 

Vonne Solis  15:55  
Oh, absolutely. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  15:56  
You look at that emotion. But I also need to be aware, where where am I? 

Vonne Solis  16:01  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  16:02  
I'm in the presence of other people who, depending on how I react to the feeling that I am having, 

Vonne Solis  16:09  
Yes.

Ashmeeta Madhav  16:10  
it's going to affect them. And they're going to formulate an opinion about me. Right? And just in this whole different frame of mind and a whole different space. But because of that, I found that I do alienate myself. I do. It's not, grief makes you alone. Puts you in a space where you're alone because people don't understand. It's not because they can't help. And they can't help you and they don't understand. So it is a lonely place to be.

Vonne Solis  16:35  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  16:36  
But I specifically have kept myself away from people. I only expose myself to situations and oh, social situations as long as I am comfortable with that situation. As soon as I start feeling uncomfortable, I stay a little bit just to see, okay, what is making me uncomfortable here? What is going on here? I'm analyzing myself while I'm in that situation. And then okay, this is too much. I can't do this. I'm going to politely remove myself from the situation. When I still am, when I go back in my own space. 

Vonne Solis  17:10  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  17:11  
Talking to myself. That self-talk. Why did I feel this way? What came up for me? How was I feeling? What did nobody really did anything. They were just showing affection to each other. What does that have to do with me? Why do I need to feel hurt by that? Why are these emotions come up in me? So but this is a me thing. This is not a them thing.

Vonne Solis  17:28  
Exactly. And, and and I think it's really healthy to do that. And I think that depending on how long you've been in grief. I'm speaking generally audience here. And depending what we do with our grief, okay? You can be 20 30, 40 years in grief and be the same person you were on day one. So it's really, I think, the inner probing is so, so wonderful, and it should continue throughout our life. Because when we're able, and some people might be able to start that inner probing a little earlier than others, but I would offer for any of us in any really impacting if not traumatic loss. Listen, don't expect to really, you know, have a clear head for a few years. I say a few years, and and it could even be longer. And so I did just want to quickly ask. This does not mean anything in terms of how long we're in grief. The reason I'm asking is what year did your hubby pass?

Ashmeeta Madhav  18:32  
2019. Four years ago.

Vonne Solis  18:34  
So the thing about the having maybe some other losses or experiences in our life that have conditioned us or disciplined us to learn how to probe inwardly, I would offer it as the biggest like the one scariest change or assignment for people to do. It's so difficult in normal best of times to inwardly probe when life's going great. Why would I do that? When life's too hard? I don't want to look at it. And all I can offer is that I still and I want to and I want to just acknowledge triggers here, Ashmeeta. They never go away. You might even find that with your mom. 

Vonne Solis  19:17  
So you've you've had your your parents loss many years ago now. You might still find triggers. Cooking smells. Whatever it would be. Seeing a mom with the you know older older mom with an adult daughter. For me, I can't stand nail salons and mom daughter days. Like it's but you know, and so I wouldn't plan to put myself in any situation that I knew could be triggering. But here's the thing about triggers audience. You don't know when they're going to hit you. What it's going to be. And they still happen years and years later. The difference is when you do inward work. Inner work. Inward probe probing and like you're saying Ashmeeta. What triggered me? And understanding it's never about the other person. Never. It could be the situation, but it's always about us and what we're feeling. And I actually think they are so healthy to have, because it gives us an opportunity to see what emotions like you're saying, are triggered. Also where we are. I often use them as a gauge. Well, I didn't react as long or as intensely. So triggers and emotions combined, which they're the same, well, kind of different, but you know, use them audience to see as a gauge how far you've come. Where you want to go. And do you want to add to that Ashmeeta?

Ashmeeta Madhav  20:49  
Yes. I think, you know, it all basically boils down to choices. When you're in any given situation, you have, we have so many choices on how we can react. Physically, with our words. What we can say. Physically how we can react with our expressions. What expression we can, you know, show to the next person. And with a lot of self talk and introspection, and that kind of stuff. Whenever you do find yourself in a situation where you're being triggered, we got it down because you've done that work. And you know that, okay, this is something that's going to trigger me. And I usually react in this way when I get triggered by some type of a situation. So I am going to practice some resistance, maybe if that is the correct word to use. But I'm going to practice being more responsible about how I am going to react to this. Because at the end of the line, it's like a video game. You want to move up the levels. You want to sort of conquer this so it doesn't control you and you are controlling it. That's basically what it's about. Is you don't want these things that happen to you in your life, i's like experiences. They come to us. They happen to us. We are not the experience. I experience a fall. It has pushed me in a whole different space. I have choices. I can sit and complain and look for attention and say, Hey, I can't do this. I can say Yes, I cannot do that. But let's think out of the box. Let's find different ways to work with things.

Vonne Solis  22:40  
Yeah. I love I love what you're saying. I'm very much, you're basically saying the way I live. You know, I'm very solution- oriented. Very, well, this has happened. Now what? But I also just want to just take a pause for a quick second. For the audience to understand that there is a period in grief, early grief. Which, however you define it for yourself what your early grief is. And often I don't even think we will know that until we've had a few years in and can look back and go oh, yeah, that was early. I might go my early grief was five years, because I'm in eight, almost 19 with my daughter. I definitely know it wasn't 10. I definitely know I was pivoting and you know, at the five year mark. 

Vonne Solis  23:23  
But also you have to define whether or not you even have enough, you know, bandwidth within yourself to kind of look and see how you were progressing. Because one thing in grief, you can really lose sense of self and what you've accomplished. And, and so while we're not really talking unless you want to offer this in your resources section about journalling and stuff. I think it's very healthy, to do something of a record keeping, if you're so inclined. Even if it's writing one line, if you're dedicated to making a difference in your own life. Dedicated to making a difference in your own life by saying, I really don't want to be in this situation forever. 

Vonne Solis  24:14  
I want to talk to you about that just really quickly. When you realized, we're going to talk about you know, thoughts and how they create a reality. But again, when we're staying within this period of grief. And I don't even want to think about my thoughts. I don't even know what I'm thinking. I have no control over that. I'm traumatized. You know, life's happening to me. It sucks. I'm in pain. I'm suffering. Make it go away. Okay. So that's fine. And that period is going to happen for probably all of us until it doesn't. And that's that piece about, you know, I want something different. And, you know, I think there's a huge gap. I mean, I could be wrong, but I think there's a bit of a gap if not a huge one, at least somewhat of a gap in getting people through that. Getting through through that. Because it's not as easy as going, you know, jumping, the puddle. Grief being the puddle. And one day just jumping over it and putting everything behind you. It is a long, hard journey from whatever type of loss we have experienced to really demonstrate this resilience and change in our life. 

Vonne Solis  25:27  
So having said that, before a person is at that stage where they can be aware of their thoughts. They do buy into that, Oh, what I'm thinking really actually impacts what I'm experiencing? Because it does. What if, what would you say to them? Something they could look for. Hang on. The hope, the hope. That one day you will move through this really tough period. What got you through, like, let's just start with, once your husband passed. You had been caregiving. And once you went into that traumatic loss, what was the thing you held on to and made you realize you weren't going to stay in that intense period forever?

Ashmeeta Madhav  26:19  
Hmm, yes. So just a quick little background. So he was with pancreatic cancer that took about a year, year and a half before it finally took him. So I was totally involved with him there. Didn't even realize what was happening to me. What I was losing, because I was so involved in what just needed immediate things that needed attending. Kids, family, his health, all that kind of stuff. After he passed, then came the first few months was all of the logistics of you know, getting things together. Taxes, finances, all that kind of stuff, which I never paid attention to. So there was no time to really even sit and think about me and what's really just happened to me, because of all this busy work that I needed to do. And I had to do it in a certain timeframe too you know, and, and at same time, my brain's working against me because it didn't want to think. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  27:17  
It doesn't want to absorb any of this information that people are giving me. People are talking to me, and I feel like they're just talking at me. And I have all these words coming to me and I'm not understanding you. Please explain it to me again. And before you know it, I'm crying. I'm like, You know what? I can't do this.You know, so you're going to have to go back to the same thing again. But, as as the months started going by, and I noticed that when I find myself alone, which is usually at night before I go to bed. Otherwise, all day I'm busy running around. Young kids. You know, the kids. 

Vonne Solis  27:49  
Yeah. Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  27:50  
I never really paid attention then. But it could knock me when I had to go to sleep. That is when everything started flooding. It comes to my mind. Do you just realize what has happened? You look to the side of you. The person that has sleeping there. The person you expect to be sleeping there is not there. 

Vonne Solis  28:10  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  28:11  
The reality of it only knocks me every evening when I go to sleep. And I was like, okay. Oh, well, you know, after a while of experiencing that I had to, took another self-talk. I just did a lot of self-talk. And the one main thing that I said to myself was, This, what do you see right now in front of you, is your reality? Embracing this reality is going to help you. Embracing means acknowledging. Coming to term and as you embrace something, you automatically slowly start coming to terms with it. Because your mind, you start changing the words that you're saying to yourself. You start maybe behaving in a little way, a different way. Instead of behaving like a victim which I, I was like, I'm not a victim is one thing that I kept saying to myself, every time I started feeling sad or feeling low down. I would say to myself, you're not a victim. This is something that's happened to you. What is it that you need to do right now to help yourself Because I am living in this very present moment. I am not living in the past. I am not living in the future. I can have goals and all of that for the future and things like that. That's a whole different thing. But life is happening right now. And it happens in moments.

Ashmeeta Madhav  29:41  
Seeing my husband die. Take his last breath. I was holding his hand when he took his last breath, gave me the realization that life is so fragile. It is here and it can be gone anytime. I mean the illness took him so quickly, we didn't even have time to discuss anything about our future or what is his intentions about how he sees his kids. Or I'm, you know, I'm leaving. I'm so sorry. None of those kinds of things even bothered coming out of any of our mouths because we were so involved in just (indecipherable) what the cancer was doing to him. 

Vonne Solis  30:21  
Wow.

Ashmeeta Madhav  30:22  
He's gone. How do I go on? How am I, how am I going to go on with my life because I did not see my life in any other way, aside from him and my children, and whatever it is that I needed to do for my family, right? So I have to re rewire those thoughts in my head. I am not a victim. Everything is fine. All is well. Everything is the way it is supposed to be. Whatever has happened is supposed to happen the way it did. It was not in my control. I don't control these things. But what I do have control over is the emotions that I'm feeling right now. The thoughts that go through my mind right now. I have control with how to control those thoughts. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  31:09  
So example. A thought could go into my mind. Oh, you're a widow. Nobody's gonna want to have to do anything with you. You taboo. You know, some cultures have this where, Oh, she's a widow. So you need to keep away from her and all that kind of stuff. So those limiting beliefs. Those thoughts will enter my mind too. Because I mean, I've lived in this world, right? 

Vonne Solis  31:31  
Yeah. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  31:32  
How do I allow that thought to become my reality? Do I really want to let that become my reality? I am a human being. It is sad that I had to lose my husband to pancreatic cancer. I didn't ask for him to die. He didn't ask to die at this age. He didn't ask to leave me. And I didn't ask for him to leave me. But this is the reality of life. Life and death are part of the circle of life. Right?

Vonne Solis  31:58  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  31:58  
So when an experience has happened to me, and the people around me or the people I'm exposing myself are not going to support me, or give me that empathy that I require, then the onus is up to me to not expect it from them. They don't they don't know any better is what I'm saying to myself. I'm not judging them. That, you know, why aren't you there for me? Because it all amounts to at the bottom line, we're all responsible for ourselves. 

Vonne Solis  32:29  
I agree.

Ashmeeta Madhav  32:30  
It's a real hard pill to swallow, especially when you're like, oh, you should be helping me. You're not there for me. You know, all of that kind of stuff. Yes, we do need that. But when you're in a situation like this, and this is one of the biggest things that knocked me was. It all starts and ends with you is what I, the realization I came to, for myself.

Vonne Solis  32:55  
 I love that. It all starts and ends with you.

Ashmeeta Madhav  33:00  
I had him. And when he was there. He played his role. He did you know, he played his part in the family. He did it well. He's now not doing that. I'm not replacing him. I tried that. Oh, my God, I tried that too. I tried to be dad and mom to my children. And that, I failed hopelessly at that. And I realized that you know what? My kids know me as for who I am. I don't need to change that person because my husband's not around anymore. I still need to be who I am to them the way they know me, and support them and guide them and do whatever it is I have to do as a parent. I don't need to change on them because there's just too much change. Losing a parent is a big change.

Vonne Solis  33:44  
Yeah. Well, well, when you say that, do you want to just clarify that you mean, you could have succumbed to the experience? And what do you actually mean by what could you have changed into that your kids wouldn't have recognized you?

Ashmeeta Madhav  34:00  
I could have, example. I mean, I actually did this, was my husband parented. I have three kids. My middle son was really close to his dad. And as he was growing, we realized that there was, there's a way that we needed to parent him in order to get through to him. And that was a unique style that my husband really did well at. So as his mom, I was more you know on the emotional side. The rational side, the logical side was my husband. And between the two of us together, parenting, this specific child was what he needed and worked for him. 

Vonne Solis  34:39  
Right.

Ashmeeta Madhav  34:39  
My husband died. I thought, oh my god. This guy is really going to go you know, things are gonna get really crazy for him. I mean, having lost parents myself, I've been there in a sense. I'm like, my kids have now lost a parent. 

Vonne Solis  34:51  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  34:51  
I became really hyper-focussed on, I want to make sure that I'm giving him what he needs. So I tried to step into my husband's shoes and do because I've seen how he parented. Then I tried to do the same thing. Backfired on me totally. 

Vonne Solis  35:09  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  35:10  
Actually there was something that this child needed. He needed to acknowledge that loss, yes. And let it be what it is authentically. Leave it in its space. There was no need for me to go in there and meddle and try to change things. I am his mom. And be who I am to him and you know, what I need to be to him. I don't need to be his dad. 

Vonne Solis  35:32  
That's a pretty profound and I think helpful insight, you know, to the audience. Is, is I just think that's really profound that you saw that. I actually had a guest on earlier in the year. And she works in, in counselling, grief counselling, and she works for a medical doctor as well. And anyway, but she was just saying that, you know, they have done studies and on kids in grief and as long as we don't interfere in their grief, they will grieve the way they need to, and it's often just in short bursts. And they might say something. They might acknowledge something and depending on their age, and then run off and play or, you know, go and do their their thing. And as long as we just you know, acknowledge it. Is there anything else you want to say about that? You know, and not try and fix it for them. She said they actually grieve healthier than adults. 

Vonne Solis  36:23  
And it's too bad. I didn't know that when my daughter died and my son was 13 because we completely didn't have this information. And we did not have this information. This is back in 2005. And anyway, it was a disaster for us because it ended up being sort of the silent thing. And I was too much of a mess to really be able to do anything. But while we're not talking about child loss today, and we are talking about unexpected parent, you know, parent death. It's, you're raising a very, very good point about wanting to try and be everything and fill both shoes. It's not possible. So understanding, getting in your own lane and understanding. No, I'm the mom, and this is all I can do. I think that's huge Ashmeeta. Huge. 

Ashmeeta Madhav  37:12  
Well it makes you feel weak. I have to be honest. I feel very weak and vulnerable. But I don't, feeling weak and vulnerable and having fear. Being afraid of things. 

Vonne Solis  37:23  
Yeah.

Ashmeeta Madhav  37:24  
Don't necessarily have to be a bad thing. You can create a positive spin to it. I'm vulnerable in this situation but what can I do? And this is going to be unique for each person, because you know, we have to in our comfort zone, right? You've got to be comfortable with what you're doing. And your your thoughts? It's basically that connection between the heart and the mind. That connection needs to take place in order for person to feel comfortable about anything that they're doing. And and for me, I don't really. Yes, I don't see fear so much as a bad thing. I, I see it as my an emotion that actually gives me insight into things that can be limiting for me or things that I still need to work on in my life so that I can move forward. And I can evolve.

Vonne Solis  38:20  
So I do want to just talk quickly. Close off with your resources Ashmeeta. You have a grief and growth challenge on Instagram. You've got a Facebook group. You've got a bunch of social media where people can connect with you. Are there any other resources that you're offering to people?

Vonne Solis  38:37  
 My contact details are all on my website. So I definitely do offer coaching to anyone who's interested.

Ashmeeta Madhav  38:42  
So your website is storyyoutellyourself.com Audience go visit Ashmeeta's site. Website. We'll have the link in the show notes. And from there, you can connect with her in a number of different ways. Take her challenge. Don't take her challenge. But whatever, you've got a lot of beautiful resources and a wonderful website. So I do want to thank you for taking the time to share some of your knowledge and wisdom gained from your experiences. Thank you.

Ashmeeta Madhav  39:11  
It's been my pleasure. Thank you very much for having me. It's really nice meeting you too.

Vonne Solis  39:15  
It's been wonderful to meet you too, Ashmeeta. Thank you.