Ep. 35 The After Life: Connecting with our Kids on the Other Side

Enjoy this enlightening conversation with bereaved dad, Joe McQuillen. Joe shares his spiritual transformation and the healing journey he began from the lessons he's learned regularly communicating with his beloved son Chris, who transitioned in January 2016.

While Joe is quite active sharing his experiences with Chris, I have been quieter about my own communication with my daughter, Janaya, on the other side. Just like Chris has been with his dad from Joe's early time of bereavement, Janaya has been communicating with me from her very first hours after transitioning in July 2005.

It was an absolute treat for me to share this time with Joe to talk about our experiences communicating with our children on the other side. We discuss what the After Life is like from our kids' perspective, the joys that this type of communication brings to us and how you can communicate with your child or other loved one on the other side if you long for this type of connection.

TIMESTAMP:
0:00    Welcome
0:32    Meet Joe
1:43    We want to know where our kids are after they transition
4:20    Visits kept me alive
5:04    Missing signs already there
7:10    Joe loses Chris
12:06 The other side is just a rice paper wall away
15:14  From believing to knowing
17:46  Joe visits a medium
24:34  Joe's message to parents who've lost kids
28:58  Suicide - an added burden of guilt
30:29  Heaven and what Chris says about it
38:25  When Joe trusted his connection with Chris
44:55  Chris's messages evolving
47:33  Reincarnation and missing each other on the highway
49:10  A visit from Janaya in real life!
53:06  The residual pain of our kids' visits
59:29  Is the spiritual growth worth the loss?
1:02:25  Not blaming God
1:04:57  Exit points and soul contracts
1:06:19  Connecting with your loved one and signs
1:13:18  Surviving children
1:16:26 Closing - your lost kids are still here!
1:16:51  End

JOE'S RESOURCES:
Website
Books (by Joe)
"My Search for Christopher on the Other Side"
"We're Not Done Yet Pop: My Lessons from the Other Side"
Email

Mentions:
Andrew Anderson
Bob Olson
Elizabeth Boisson
James van Praagh

VONNE'S RESOURCES:
Website
Books (by Vonne)
“Lessons in Surviving Suicide – A Letter to My Daughter”
“Divine Healing Transforming Pain into Personal Power – A Guide to Heal Pain From Child Loss, Suicide and Other Grief”
“The Power of Change”
Resources (Blog, Course & Meditations)

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with Vonne on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Transcript

Vonne Solis  0:00  
Welcome to another episode of Grief Talk. Everything you want to know about grief and more. I'm your host, Vonne Solis. As an author, life transformation coach, online instructor and bereaved mom since 2005, I'll be bringing you great content that is informative, inspiring and practical. Whether you have suffered a loss or other adversity, stay tuned and tapped in as I cover a variety of topics to help you get where you want to go on your journey to heal and grow.

Vonne Solis  0:32  
Today's guest is Joe McQuillen. Joe is married for 31 years and a father of three children. One son on the other side. The youngest of 10 children from an Irish Catholic family, Joe is at heart a blue collar kid from Buffalo, New York. Not willing to accept a world devoid of his beloved son Christopher, Joe began to research the metaphysical and seek out the answers to what happens next. With a desire to bring other bereaved parents comfort and hope through all of his work, his first book written by Joe and Chris, "My Search for Christopher on the Other Side" tells the story of the journey of discovery over Joe's first two years. His second book "We're Not Done Yet Pop, My Lessons From the Other Side" takes his audience to the next level of discovery and awakening. 

Vonne Solis  1:20  
Welcome to the show Joe. I have been so excited to talk to you. And if you just want to pop in for a quick moment and say hello to the audience, they'll get to see your bright and shining face. And then we're gonna get on to the episode.

Joe McQuillen  1:34  
I don't know how bright or shiny it is, but it's my face. And I'm Joe McQuillen and I'm an author and a bereaved shining light parent.

Vonne Solis  1:43  
Exactly. So as I mentioned in the introduction for my audience, Joe has a son on the other side. And I have a daughter on the other side. And Joe and I have many similarities. We've never met before. So this is our first time meeting as well. And so, but what we do have in common, and I believe that we're all brought together at the times were brought together for a reason. And I'll be honest, I started this podcast in July Joe, and for my audience, and it is dedicated just like your work to helping bereaved parents and other bereaved individuals, and anybody who feels lost and is struggling from adversity, heal. Choose to grow and expand their consciousness. 

Vonne Solis  2:34  
And so a large part of the work that you do, obviously, if not all of the work that you do, and we're gonna get into that in just a moment, but for the audiences, that Joe does receive visits, messages from Christopher, his son, Christopher, who passed in in January 2016. And, and came to you fairly quickly after his passing with messages. All kinds of messages about his experience. What it's like in the after life, and so on. My daughter and I have been silent about this for most of my 17 years in bereavement because I'm an Angel Therapy Practitioner. And so when I started channeling right away, because the question we have in common, and Joe is gonna agree with this and has talked about this, you want to know where your kid is. In fact, you want to know where any loved one is when they die. And it is a scientific challenge to figure this out. But for those of us who are lucky enough to receive visits, Joe and I here, are here today, to not offer you proof, but to offer you experience. And I'm so thrilled you're here Joe, because for a long time, I felt so alone, and I think I was a little bit hesitant. I was even hesitant to, you know, sort of go public with working and channeling angels. So to bring in my daughter, who I don't believe we're channeling, but we're we're communicating. We're connecting with them in a form that we don't even really necessarily understand. You know, it was so new for me and so overwhelming for me. And because I'd been involved in metaphysics, maybe I was already wide open to receive this type of communication. But not having done it before, this is what was sort of overwhelming for me.

Vonne Solis  4:20  
So anyway, I got braver and braver through my first few few years of bereavement to speak openly about angels. And in fact, I worked one on one channeling messages and, you know, healing sessions for many clients. And I wrote in my first book all about how my daughter actually aided me. But I'm telling you those visits, Joe, somewhat kept me alive. Okay? Because they gave me hope. And we're going to dive into your story and how you came to be blessed to have visits, I call them visits. I'll let you explain in your words what you can call them, but it's the connecting with our children when they're gone. 

Vonne Solis  5:04  
And why this is so important for you and I to be talking together is because when one parent goes out and and talks about it and says, Well, this is happening, you tend it almost tends to be a voyeurism. The others look and go, Oh, I wish I could do that. They can do it, but I'll never be able to do it. And it's something that unless you experience it, it's kind of hard to, you can't teach it. You just have to be open to it. And so it's for those people, and I had plenty of bereaved parents over the years who have said to me, I wish I had visits. I wish I had signs. I wish I had this. And often parents, I also want to remind any bereaved parent watching, Joe will attest to this as well. You know what? The signs and the connection may well be there and you're just missing it because of doubts. 

Vonne Solis  5:59  
So we're gonna get into that in a little bit too. But first, Joe, also, deepest, deepest condolences to you, your wife, I believe her name is Sally, and your surviving children and all other family members. From one bereaved parent to another, I know that you know the depth of that statement. And it is from my heart to all of you that I am sorry for the human experience that you're having to go through. Like me.

Joe McQuillen  6:31  
Thank you. And right back, right back at you with your loss as well.

Vonne Solis  6:35  
Yeah, yeah. By the way, bereaved parents love that when we say that to each other. It's just, it kind of binds you and bonds you, I guess I should say. And it's an amazing, it

Joe McQuillen  6:44  
We're all in this together.

Vonne Solis  6:45  
We're in it, we're on the same team. Same choir, same team. So over to you, Joe. And so because I have a lot of questions I want to get to I will, I will absolutely, just to drum up some conversation here and get people thinking about different things and even ourselves, I would invite you to explain to the audience, the work that you are doing. Your focus and the work that you're doing and obviously how you came to do it.

Joe McQuillen  7:10  
Well, let's start with let's start with January 3, 2016. Chris was home from college, and last weekend before they're going back to school from Christmas break. And, and they they all were meeting up at a friend's lake house in Wisconsin about an hour and a half away. And and and and Chris was wild. You know he gets that from me. I'm 37 years sober. I was I was a bit of a wild man growing up. And and and so Sally and I were kind of relieved that he was going to be in this bucolic setting up in up in the woods and safe. And, and the plan was they were all going to go to a cabin and shoot a bunch, there was a dozen of them. Shoot pool. Come back to the house, finish the party. Get up in the morning and everybody go home. And, you know, a day or two later, go back to school. That was the plan. You know?

Joe McQuillen  7:57  
And and so I grew up in Buffalo and I was a big Buffalo Bills fan. And I always have a dish. So we've always watched Bill's games together when he's in town with his little brother. And, and I woke up and he wasn't around. And around 11 o'clock, I started texting, hey hey where are you pal? The game's gonna kick off in 45 minutes or whatever. And I get a text back from one of the boys. He said Mr. McQ. Chris and three of his friends, three of our friends is missing. 

Joe McQuillen  8:24  
So you know, I jumped in the jeep and through my you know, through a pair of hunting boots on and grabbed my dog and started driving up. And halfway up, I got a phone call and said from the uncle who lived in a couple houses down and said it was no longer a search but a recovery. All four boys had drowned. And literally, every parent, every parent goes back to that moment, you know. And, and literally I felt a little bit in shock. And so I drove up and I look out the window, out my window that I'm talking to you now. I'm in his bedroom that is now my home office. It was his bedroom  as a kid. And it's a very happy place. A thin place for me. And I can look out the window. See the flashing lights and the divers and all the stuff that goes with it. And it breaks your heart all over again. No, it doesn't break. No. There's a great line from movie Manchester by the Sea where a woman lost her children in a fire tragically. And she said my heart was broken. It'll always be broken. And that's the way it is. You know, I live a very full life full of love and laughter, but I do it with a piece of my heart broken. 

Joe McQuillen  9:37  
And you know, I was just watching believe it or not a show called Yellowstone yesterday. And and Kevin Costner had lost a son. And he approached his daughter-in-law who had lost a baby and said, I know how you feel. You know. I wished I didn't but I do. And it was such a concise statement. So anybody listening I know how you feel.

Vonne Solis  10:00  
 Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  10:01  
When outsiders say that, it doesn't have it, I almost dismiss it. Because no you don't. I mean, it would be like me saying, I know what it's like to wake up as an amputee. And I don't. But I do know what it's like to wake up and realize that you're, you're facing another day and your son's crossed over. 

Joe McQuillen  10:19  
So, you know, flash back 15 years, I had seen a medium on kind of a spiritual whim maybe. And it wasn't very significant. At the very end, she got to the point and she said, your dad's here. He's saying railroad. Showing a caboose. And, and I stopped because my dad was a railroader For 40 years. All five boys in the family worked on the railroad in college. My uncle, my grandfather, we were a railroad family. So at that point, I said, huh, that's interesting. And I've put filed that away. My mental file cabinet that said, my dad somewhere that it's attainable. Where you can connect to. You know, you can reach him. You can touch him. But he didn't die tragically, or out of order really. A little earlier than we'd like. But there was no sense of urgency. And 15 years later, I'm driving up to Wisconsin, and there is. 

Vonne Solis  11:08  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  11:09  
And I got the message. And I'm kind of in shock a little bit. And it came to me that if my dad was somewhere, then Chris is with him. That's how my family was. Big Irish Catholic family. Ten kids. Big family. So if if Dad was somewhere he was with Chris now when Chris crossed over. And that started my search, you know, Vonne. That was, that was the moment that I said, there was that moment that I said, I need to try to figure this out. And by the way, I mean, I spent 30 years I was a car dealer. I'm a blue collar guy. I'm a boots on the ground fella. You know, I stopped playing hockey three years ago, two years ago, you know. So I'm not a gullible guy. I thought, okay, if this is New Age hokey BS, let's cross it off the list and figure some way else to, to, you know, to see what's there. And, and that started my search. 

Joe McQuillen  12:06  
Well, obviously, you know, what I learned was, it's not hokey BS. That it's, that the other side is just a rice paper wall away. That they can connect with us. You and I were briefly talking before. And you were talking about parents who say, you know, gee, you can do it, but I can't. You can. And you're very kind and sweet woman. And I remember speaking at a group in Wilmad theater, and somebody kind of in an accusatory way was like, Well, my sister passed, and I haven't heard from her. And, and I said, What have you done? What have you done on your part? Because you've got to do your part, right? 

Vonne Solis  12:44  
Yes. 

Joe McQuillen  12:45  
I had to learn to raise my level of consciousness. I had to learn how to align my chakras. I had to learn how to meditate. You know.

Vonne Solis  12:52  
Yes.

Joe McQuillen  12:53  
I'm an A personality. A-D-D guy. 

Vonne Solis  12:56  
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  12:57  
I don't sit still. But I do when I meditate.

Vonne Solis  12:59  
I also want to just add in here. I might I might do that sometimes Joe because I get flashes of information. Imagine doing this audience when you're suffering the worst pain you can go through. 

Joe McQuillen  13:15  
Sure. 

Vonne Solis  13:16  
Opening up your chakras. Trusting. It's easy to, it's easy to hope and and and have the willingness okay? And it's almost a desperation. For me it was a desperation. And I'll just throw in there so at the time my daughter died, I had 27 years of metaphysics behind me. And it, one of my favorite books was Gary Zhukov's Seat of the Soul. And I had to get that book out again. I had to get all my books out again and reread them because now it held very different meaning for me. Because it's okay to sit there and be, and with no disrespect to the leaders of metaphysics, spiritual practice, you know movements and well not movements but you know, thought and you know, the, the big time authors and so on. I always have said to my family. I would love to sit at a dinner table and ask if they would espouse so easily and quickly the same thing if they had lost a child. But of course that's probably never going to happen. So the reason I'm jumping in and just saying that is it takes willpower just to get yourself out of bed. Never mind open yourself up to learning, channeling you know, be because you're always everyday have been having to put more on yourself to be more. Would you not agree with that, Joe?

Joe McQuillen  14:42  
I would, Vonne, but it's a whole other story. In other words, for me, it was air to breathe. So, you know, in my grief, in my grief, I needed to learn how to connect. Now if you said in my grief, you had to learn French. 

Vonne Solis  15:04  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  15:04  
Accounting. You know, I would blow it off because 

Vonne Solis  15:07  
yeah, 

Joe McQuillen  15:08  
but 

Vonne Solis  15:08  
yeah, 

Joe McQuillen  15:09  
but what was most important in the world to me was connecting. You know, there's 

Vonne Solis  15:13  
yes

Joe McQuillen  15:14  
now, I don't look like a guy that would quote Aeschylus. You know, Greek philosopher. But he said in our sleep pain that cannot forgets, falls drop by drop upon the heart until in our misery, and against our own will comes wisdom through the awful grace of God. And that's what happened. I mean, awful, not in is terrible, but awesome, awful as in awe-inspiring. This awful strength, the awesome strength that God has. And wisdom has in some way, pushed some of the grief. You know, let's be honest. I grieve every day. There's always something that takes my knees out once a day. I process it and let it flow over me. And then I get on my day. I know my Christopher's with me. You know, and that prevents me from going into a shell that I can't get out of. You know, two things. One, Chris is in my daily life. And, and two, when I cross, which I will, I'm gonna be with him. I know that. I mean, I went from a believing to knowing. 

Joe McQuillen  16:16  
So let me touch on that a little bit. My wife, Sally's on board with the same. She's a beautiful, wonderful, she's a very, very bright. She's a therapist, you know. She's a magnificent gal. And she's completely on board with what you know. As a matter of fact, she went and saw Rebecca Rosen before I did. Or before I got heavily involved with this. And it encouraged me to pick up the mantle and, and keep moving. I had called this medium that I had spoke spoken to 15 years before after Chris transitioned really, really soon. And she said, I don't know if he'll be able to come through so soon. But he did. And he told us things that we didn't know until we got, I didn't know, until we got them. Coroner's report and such. And, and it was some good readings and some understanding. Like, one of the things she said, He's calling you a different name than dad. It's like, pap or ?  I said no, that's Pop. He would call me Pop, you know? 

Vonne Solis  17:12  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  17:12  
And when he was playing, it was Pop. When it was serious it was Dad, you know. And that continues to this day. 

Vonne Solis  17:18  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  17:18  
But then I went to another level. Where I thought I can't call this woman back every two, three weeks, you know? And a good medium will say that. 

Vonne Solis  17:26  
Yes, that's right. 

Joe McQuillen  17:27  
And she said, you know, so so I wanted to. I decided, there's a wonderful book by a guy named Bob Olson. Answers About the after life. He was a private investigator. And a guy's guy. And so I really wanted his bent. I didn't want flowing robes. I didn't want tambourines. I wanted somebody with boots on the ground telling me what to expect. 

Vonne Solis  17:46  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  17:46  
So his book was phenomenal. And on that book was a website that I didn't realize was his. You know, website about mediums in your area. So I looked up the mediums and I picked up this guy named Tom or Andrew Anderson. And Andrew lived 40 minutes away in the west suburbs of Chicago. And gave him my first name. Nothing else. Made an appointment. And like I always do, I have an exit ramp that if I was going to disappear, not show up, I'd cancel. So this was June 30, 2016. Six months after Christopher transitioned. And, and I went and saw Andrew. But before I did, I did two things. One is, I took this bracelet. It's a leather bracelet from Disney World in 2000. Well, Christopher was so this must have been '99, 2000. So he was five, six. And he gave it to me. And I'd put it in my dresser and never thought of it after that week. Right? And another thing is I'd done. I had moved him over one grave and I think listeners might think I left the reservation. But when the snow melted it was obvious that he was buried next to another couple. Even though we had to have three plots. And I was livid. You know, he was my kid. Nobody else's. You know the stone wasn't down until the ground softened. So I'd moved him over one plot. Now occupy the plot he was in. That's my plot. But you know, he was my kid. Nobody else's. So, and by the way, that decision came to me like a mandate.

Vonne Solis  19:26  
Hmm.

Joe McQuillen  19:27  
I kept trying to think of the human rationale. Well I'm wasting money. Is this really important? Isn't this better for his kids school? Whatever, right? 

Vonne Solis  19:36  
Yeah, yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  19:37  
And I just kept getting the answer move him. Move him. And I did. And it's one of the finest things I've ever done because I'm perfectly content when I go there. Which I go there often.

Vonne Solis  19:49  
So do you think the quote mandate to move it was to bring you contentment or did you ever find another? Yeah, that was it? Okay.

Joe McQuillen  19:56  
It was when I go there and it's perfect. But it wouldn't have been perfect. I would have been settling. 

Vonne Solis  20:03  
Yes. 

Joe McQuillen  20:04  
And I don't want to settle when it's dealing with something as important as connecting with my kid. So I'm happy. I'm not second-guessing. Right. And so it was a it was a great move. So they had moved, they had done, they moved him over in May. And they had moved him over in May. And so the dirt was loose around his grave. So I planted shamrock seeds that I ordered from Amazon I'd gotten a couple days before. I didn't tell my wife I was planting shamrock. Now it's not that I'm hidings planting shamrocks. It just didn't come up, right?

Vonne Solis  20:38  
Yeah, yeah, of course.

Joe McQuillen  20:39  
You know, I'd worked later and got in, you know, so in the morning I started with two things. I grabbed the bracelet. Put it on my wrist under my cuff, and then stopped at the grave and planted the Shamrock seeds and talked to Chris a little bit and jumped in the car and went and saw Andrew Anderson. And, you know, walked in and it's the first time in a long time, you know, then 15 years before when I'd seen a medium in person. But I was in front of a medium. But I wanted to talk to somebody who was looking at my son. And I knew that I would know. Right? So there's, everybody has this aha moment when you go from believing to knowing. And this was an Aha moment. I walked in and he talked about a couple of things. He asked for a couple of pictures of who I wanted to connect with them. Showed Chris, you know at a Blackhawks game and Chris at a party in a Hawaiian shirt. He had mentioned, he said, you know, there was a sadness about it. We did, we knew that there was a depression would kick in sometimes. He drank too much. You know, you know, but there was this wonderful kindness and sweetness. And he was a tough funny kid. There were 2000 kids went to, people showed up at his wake. 2000!

Joe McQuillen  21:51  
So I moved him over. I stopped that day and, and planted shamrock seeds. So I got into Andrew's office. He said, Your son's here. And he's beautiful. He looks like Brad Pitt. Which he does. But Chris is is is, is commenting, and stating that you're wearing the bracelet he gave you. And he's saying that you planted something at his grave. It was 45 minutes before I had done that. And that was the moment, you know, Vonne, that it went from believing to knowing. And our relationship with Andrew has continued on to this day. In fact, I'm on the first I don't like spiritual circles. I'm not a spiritual guy. But I love Andrew. And so I'll go out to the circle just to maybe be more of service to somebody else than to myself. And that's the difference. You know, it wasn't like I was a bad guy or a pirate. But I was a lot more selfish prior to January 3, 2016, than I am now. And service is important. And if I can extend a kindness or help, you know, I'm going to do it. You know, there's a here's a great poem by Haruki Murakami. Once again, I don't look like a Haruki Murakami type poem guy.

Vonne Solis  23:11  
It's what's inside Joe. You, you look great. I think you're great. I think this is great all coming from you. Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  23:18  
I think it's important. And Chris tells me this all the time. He said, Dad, you're a great ambassador. 

Vonne Solis  23:23  
Yes.

Joe McQuillen  23:24  
Because you don't look like the type of person who would be involved in this. And that will allow other fathers specifically to identify with you.

Vonne Solis  23:31  
Yes. Because it also takes a lot of emotion 

Joe McQuillen  23:35  
Yes

Vonne Solis  23:35  
to do this work. To go be to be vulnerable with your pain. Your story. And yes, we need more fathers.

Joe McQuillen  23:45  
Yes, just to tell the other fathers they can drop the rock. It's okay. 

Vonne Solis  23:49  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  23:49  
You know what Vonne? I was a pretty tough kid you know? But if I want to cry, I'm gonna cry. And I don't care about anybody.

Vonne Solis  23:56  
Yeah, I do. 

Joe McQuillen  23:57  
Here's the quote. And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through. How you managed to survive. You won't even be sure whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person who walked in. That's what storms are all about. And the storm that every one of us that we're talking to, has has walked through. Has survived. It changes us. And if it doesn't change us, maybe it's a waste. So I wasn't about to let this horrible tragedy that was a bell that couldn't be un-rung, I wasn't going to let it go to waste.

Vonne Solis  24:32  
Yeah, no, I agree.

Joe McQuillen  24:34  
You know, so my mission is to bring Chris's messages to parents who've lost kids. Now the brilliant Suzanne Giesemann wrote a book entitled Still Right Here, and that's the message. Your kids, your loved one, your significant other, your fiancé, your wife, your husband. They're still right here. 

Vonne Solis  24:54  
Yes, yes.

Joe McQuillen  24:56  
But you need to do the work. You know circling back to that Wilmad theatre thing. And I would say you need to do the work. You gotta raise your level of consciousness. You got to do a little research. I mean, I just recently, I'm, I'm, you know, six and a half years, almost seven years into this now. And I just did my first past life regression. I'm expanding the horizon. Anything that will bring me closer or give me more knowledge to what Christopher's doing, I'm in. I want part of.

Vonne Solis  25:22  
Yeah. It's a lifelong journey. And so I've been in metaphysics 40 years now and a spiritual practice for 40 years. And as, as I said, I had to rethink everything, in time, when my daughter died. So I ended up as I said, becoming an Angel Therapy Practitioner, and certifying under Doreen Virtue who was working in it at the time. And went to California. My sister accompanied me because I, it was nine months after my daughter Janaya died. And I could, I was terrified of the world. You know, like, terrified, I like you was an A plus personality. Lived a charmed life. You know, everything was great. I have one surviving son. My, my family was my world. I did stuff on my own as well. Worked, didn't work, you know. I had time to be at home with the kids if I wanted. That sort of thing. But, you know, her her passing, and in our case, it was a suicide. However, I don't get, I've met a lot of bereaved parents over the years, and we don't get caught up in, how did your child die? We don't. They're just gone. And the pain's, the pain. The suffering's the suffering. The healing's, the healing however we choose to do it. But we do need community. We do need stories. We do need better support. I'm in Canada. Support is not great for us here. 

Vonne Solis  26:40  
I've talked to Americans. I just had a newly bereaved mom on the show. And I asked her about support. And she agrees, it's still the same as you know, when I was comparing my experiences 17 years ago. It's still relatively the same. Also, not all bereaved parents take up support. They don't go to support groups. But even when they do, support can be lacking practical positive steps to actually, you know, I'm going to loosely say heal. Okay? Some people don't like that word. And when you're in grief, and it takes a while to kind of embrace the notion of healing. But just to be better than you were the day before. Because the other thing about this, this really crappy grief, Joe, is that I read very early on, like, within days, weeks, that it could be harder, the longer you're in it. And I was like, no, please, please, God, no. But it's true. And I hate to say it, but it's not, it's not long-lasting, but that pain can rack you at 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. And I like learning from, you know, parents who have been in it, you know, 25, 30 years. But the supply of books and things like that is kind of limited. And when we said earlier, I said earlier, we need more fathers, we also need, you know, more mom voices in this world, because while there is a smidgen of bereaved parents that will be public about their journey, we need way more. We need, we need way more.

Joe McQuillen  28:21  
There's a wonderful group called Helping Parents Heal. And Elizabeth Boisson in Phoenix started it when she lost her boy who was hiking. And I was honored, I mean to, to go out and speak at their conference. I was honored to be asked with the heavyweights there. But it's, it's I contribute often to the group and, and, and get feedback and get back a lot from the group. Because it's, you know, the nice thing is, you never you know, you never have to explain yourself. Let me explain how this feels. Because we know how this feels. 

Joe McQuillen  28:58  
You know, I do want to touch base on on the suicide aspect. Because quite often we kind of just dash by it. And I completely agree with you that that crossing is crossing is crossing, right? But you cross from a disease, an illness, you know, you get over it and you get cleansed of that. And the same thing, I think, the depression or anxiety, which are the madness that causes you to take your own life, you're relieved of that when you cross over. You know, it's all the same thing. But what's not the same thing is the you know, I talk about this when I'm talking to parents, is if you've lost a child through suicide, there's an additional burden of guilt you put on yourself that's completely unearned. Right? There's nothing you could do about it. You know?

Joe McQuillen  29:46  
Oh I know, I know all about it. I just published a book in 2021 called Lessons in Surviving Suicide, which is just. 

Joe McQuillen  29:53  
I saw it.

Vonne Solis  29:53  
Oh yeah. So that's strictly, it's not strictly for bereaved parents who have gone through suicide, but there were times I felt out of place in The Compassionate Friends support group, for example. Because you're sitting there trying to justify to yourself, you see the pain of an accident or you know, disease. Something that in some small way makes sense. You understand this happened. It makes sense that my child died as a result of it. But when they choose to go, and I don't touch murder, but when they choose to go? It's like you, you really almost can never fathom it. 

Vonne Solis  30:29  
But I want to ask you something. I want to jump in and ask you something because you're speaking so eloquently and wonderfully, wonderfully about, you know, the metaphysics. A spiritual practice and so on. Do you believe in heaven? You're raised Catholic. I just want to know, and now now, listen, there's a reason I'm asking this. So, I even with a background in, in what I've already talked about, what we're talking about; metaphysics, ongoing consciousness, you know, more, more, more and more and more than, than the human experience, grew up Christian, and was raised somewhat in a Baptist church. And I didn't stick with it. But you know, so but because I was this like, sort of yearning soul that even from say, my teen teen years, knew there had to be more. And I would look at the sky, and you know, what's there? What's there? Well, anyway, when Janaya died, even me with all of that background and practice, you know, thought about heaven. Not a place that I couldn't reach, but really, what was it? Not unlike you saying, where do where do we go? What is the aft, what is the after life? So I want to know, if you believe in it, and then I'll tell you how I came to define heaven. Because a lot of parents do believe in heaven. And heaven. That word, I was talking to my sister yesterday, and I said, you know, it's such a, it's such a comforting word, heaven. And she said, it's a beautiful word. And I said, Yes, it is. And to me, it's the same as the after life. But I just, did you grapple with that? I'm sure raised a Catholic, you had to believe in heaven and hell. Did you? 

Joe McQuillen  32:11  
The Catholic faith and I, you know, we, we cross with paths. We merge, we separate. You know? I'm a big fan of Christ. I'm a big fan of Buddha. I'm a big fan of Isa. I'm a big fan of, of all of the Ascended Masters. You know, I believe that we're all children of Christ. Sons and God, I mean of God. 

Vonne Solis  32:32  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  32:33  
Christ might be, you know, one of the favorite sons along with Buddha and whoever, right? So I have no issues with the data. I believe. Christopher refers to him as the Source, so I refer to him as the Source. 

Vonne Solis  32:43  
Yeah, yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  32:44  
So here's what Christopher told me about heaven. He said Dad, your side's good. And he talks about it as his his side. Your side's good. You know, he said, it was like when you played football. You go to football camp. It's a lot of hard work. There's injuries. There's, you know, you're sweating, you're hit, you're physically, you're exhausted, but you're with your friends. You're competing. And and you're, you're you're good. He said, your side's like that. It's, it's good, but it's a lot of work. He said, my side is a beach bungalow in Maui. My side's better. So what I have come to the conclusion, so my knowing. It may not be your knowing. It may not be your your people's in the cast, in the podcast knowing. But but my knowing is that your heaven you design it.

Vonne Solis  33:31  
Yes. Oh, I agree with that.

Joe McQuillen  33:32  
Family. My family is huge. And they're all together. And I've had mediums Thomas John named five of them, that were all, came to a reading with 300 people. And he started talking, and he said, Who's, there's a guy named Jerry, but it's not Gerald. There's Pat. And there's Bobby who took his life in the 70s. And there's Billy and then there's a son named Chris. And so it was, it was like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. You know, pulled me out of 300 people, right? Named everybody there. So I know they're all together. 

Vonne Solis  34:04  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  34:04  
I've been told, you know, more than once when family members have come through mediums that you didn't know them or know anything about them. So I do think it's a family group. Unless you don't want to be with your family. 

Vonne Solis  34:16  
Yes.

Joe McQuillen  34:17  
Sally's dad was an avid, he was a businessman, but he loved to upland game hunt. Bird hunt. And so he's come through a couple times and and you know, and he's come through and both times mediums said he's dressed like in you know, like a hunting jacket walking through the fields. That's his habit. 

Vonne Solis  34:36  
Yeah, yeah.

Joe McQuillen  34:37  
That's okay but that's not my heaven. My heaven's more like Chris's and tropical and, and huts and maybe a golf course, you know. So I think that is, you know, it's like going to, you're going on this amazing vacation for as long as you want to stay there. And if you want to come back to earth school you can. And if you don't, you don't.

Vonne Solis  34:59  
Yeah, So I'll just add so for me, whether you call it heaven, the after life, ongoing consciousness, it's all the same. Something that helped me understand it, because when you're, when you're bereaved, and you're looking for your loved one. Whether it's your child or an another, you know, difficult loss that you're having trouble dealing with. And you're looking at that sky, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? I came to understand it through a book I read, which I can't remember what it was at this moment. Doesn't matter. Just as energy. And it's the field around us. And it's literally within inches, and we can just touch it. And so and so yeah, it's there, it's there. It's not that it's here too, it's here. It's just, it's it's us. It's it's, a little bit of it is in each of us, which is our ongoing consciousness.

Vonne Solis  35:45  
 I just want to say really quickly, there was an article, I didn't have a chance to read it and access it yet. But science is now looking into it's not that they haven't, it's not that they have not had, you know, scientists, you know, not looking into ongoing consciousness. They've been doing tests for decades on this. But once it gets a little bit more in the mainstream, you know, quantum physics and all that stuff, I think it'll be easier for people to believe and understand and even embrace the ability we have to tap into just another energy field. Just in another vibration. So that ultimately is heaven and after life for me.

Joe McQuillen  36:32  
Yes, I believe in heaven. 

Joe McQuillen  36:33  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  36:34  
Yes I believe in God. And it's whatever name you put to God. We don't know one religion owns the rights to who runs heaven. It's the shores. Who put it out to God.

Vonne Solis  36:44  
Exactly. I want to say one quick experience, very quick for the audience. And you might be interested in this as well, Joe. You said you had your first past life regression. So many years ago, my daughter was um, let me see. Oh, man, she was I think two or three. And anyway, I was working at that time with and she would be turning 40 in February. So we're going back a few years. And so anyway, I was working with this spiritual teacher at the time, and he had a new age center. And it was very, very, like woowoo. But you know, for a lot of people, but it actually kind of got me my start in my mid-20s. And anyway, we did a past life regression. And just to keep this really, really short, I ended up sitting in a bright, the bright light, you know, white light, what they talk about in near-death experience, and so on. What felt like at the hem of, we'll just call it, quote God's feet. And it impacted me. I've never forgotten it. I've never forgotten the feeling. But I ultimately just like when you went to a medium 15 years before Chris passed. It sort of set the the stage if you will. Set the whatever, for I understood and had experienced there was something more. Even though it wasn't a near-death experience, it was that type of feeling. So it made it easier for me to trust and understand Janaya's communication and connection when she she came through hours after her death. In fact, in fact, there was a beautiful double rainbow that became very symbolic and significant in the first few years that she sent, as well as other many, many other things. 

Vonne Solis  38:25  
I wanted to quickly ask you here. So you're the focus of this episode, in addition to all this other stuff we're talking about, but is the fact that you are able to communicate with Chris. Chris, Chris has brought wonderful, beautiful messages that are in both your books, which we're going to be talking about that towards the end, but and having links to your website and books and so on. My Search for Christopher On The Other Side, your first book, The second book, We're Not Done Yet Pop, My Lessons From the Other Side. But my question to you, as we're chatting here is, what was the moment or did you trust right from the beginning Chris's connection and communication? Because of like, at what moment did you trust? The question really is at what moment did you trust yourself to be receiving what was without a doubt Chris's communication?

Joe McQuillen  39:23  
Without a doubt. And so it came in a little bit of levels, right? June, June 30, 2016, Andrew Anderson, I now knew that the other side existed. Chris was there he could connect with me. 

Vonne Solis  39:27  
Right.

Joe McQuillen  39:28  
End of story. And so fast forward, and the anniversary's death. Or crossing. I don't like to use term death because he didn't die. 

Vonne Solis  39:45  
Yep. 

Joe McQuillen  39:46  
His crossing January 3. Now it's January 3, 2017. Now, during this period prior to this. Just prior, I had started getting up in the middle of the night and coming in to my office which was his room, lighting sage, aligning my chakras, breathing out, holding my breath for seven seconds. Saying his name at each chakra level. Burning sage crystals, picture of him, candles. Listening to various guided meditations just to feel close to him. And I could. I felt really close to him and it was a really warm and comforting feeling. And on the anniversary, that I was here doing my thing, right? And I started getting feedbacks in my head. And I had a legal pad like I do on my desk in front of me with a pen. Bic Philosophy pen. So I always use the same pen. And, and all of a sudden, I started getting these messages. And I started writing them down. Now prior to this, anytime I went to a medium, I would take notes or then started recording them and then transcribing them. Put them in a Tickler file according to date. I did that anticipating that someday, sitting on a rocking chair smoking a cigar, it would just help me feel close to Chris. Chris had me doing that because he knew he wanted me to write a book. Right? 

Vonne Solis  41:07  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  41:08  
So you know, I was just following the breadcrumbs at this point. 

Vonne Solis  41:10  
Sneaky Chris. Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  41:13  
And so, so the first message all of a sudden pick up a pen and he said, it's like a beach. It's beautiful pink warm, but the colors are soft and vibrant. Pink, blues and strong greens. The air is warm surrounding us. It's the air in love. It's love air everywhere. Nothing hurts. Warm and happy. Always young. Miss you, dad, but I'll see you soon enough. Then he talked about his friend. He said, You gotta let go of the resentment. You know, Scotty was my friend. I loved him and he loved me. We were good buddies. And that was about that I was a year later still carrying around the resentment for the people that owned the lake house. Now, you know, they were a little lax and and permissive, possibly. But they were 21 year old boys. These weren't babies. They made choices. But I was angry. And I wanted to be mad at somebody. So I was mad at them. And he said, You got to look at that. And I was like, you know, okay for you, Chris, anything. I'll let go of it. And I thought besides, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking this is easy. When will l see this kid again?

Joe McQuillen  42:13  
So, so this went on. I wrote about two three pages that day. And that continues. This happened at three o'clock this morning by the way. I had a visit with Chris at three o'clock this morning. So this continues at least a couple times a month where we connect. Just him and I here. And people say, ask him this question. And this isn't a q&a. When I go to medium I'll do a q&a. This is him dictating. Him telling me. I'm not gonna break the string and ask him anything. I'm gonna take down what my boy is telling me. For the good of me. For the good of the family. For the good of mankind. For the good of parents who've lost kids. So I said, sure Chris. I'll let go of this resentment of Scotty. And so then I went back to bed. And Sally and I were going to meet at the grave at sundown and launch a Chinese lantern and honor our boy. But instead I got a text from some of his friends that said, Hey, pop, or Mr. McQ, it's Chris's, you know, his college buddies who are in our lives and very close friends to this, to this day. And he said, We're, a couple of us are going to meet at Chris's grave about 3:30. Can you meet us? I said, sure. 

Joe McQuillen  43:24  
So I grabbed the hockey cooler. Through a bunch of ice and Gatorade and grabbed a bunch of cigars and figured, you know, five or six of us would hang out and kind of just talk about Chris and love each other. When I got there, there were about 40 kids there.

Vonne Solis  43:38  
Nice. 

Joe McQuillen  43:39  
From his grammar school to his middle school to his high school to his college. They got on that coconut telegraph the kids got, you know. And we sat there for two hours and then I called Sally and said you got to get here. Two hours in the north shore of Chicago in the middle in early January. It was cold. And we've done that every year since by the way. And, and the first kid that I saw there was Scotty. So all of a sudden it dawned on me Vonne that he was preparing me for this meeting. 

Vonne Solis  44:11  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  44:12  
He had asked me a favor. Let go of the resentment. So by the time I saw him, I was able to. I wasn't ducking him or blaming him. I was able to embrace him. Say it wasn't your fault. 

Vonne Solis  44:23  
Yeah, yeah.

Joe McQuillen  44:24  
I love. you.

Vonne Solis  44:25  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  44:25  
You know.

Vonne Solis  44:25  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  44:28  
And those messages continue to this day. And so I've written down every one exactly as he's told me. If it's misspelled, then it goes in there misspelled. If it's, you know, you know, it, I write it down when you get messages from the other side, you don't edit it.

Vonne Solis  44:43  
One thing I wanted to ask you here, now, again, you may not have thought of this. And if you have you may not want to answer it, but here goes the question. 

Joe McQuillen  44:54  
Here goes the question.

Vonne Solis  44:55  
Here goes the question. So I have two actually. One is, over the years, because Chris has been channeling, you know, for a few years now, have the messages deepened, evolved, changed as your understanding and awareness to embrace, embrace information changes? And the second thing is, have you considered that one day, you may not need Chris as much, or Chris will need to move on and not be as frequent a communicator with you? Have you thought about that?

Joe McQuillen  45:30  
I have. And I've addressed them both. So let's start with the first question. He's evolving, you know. There's, there's, there's less funny. Less cursing. 

Vonne Solis  45:43  
Ooh, 

Joe McQuillen  45:44  
you know, and he's in, so he's evolving. But he said to me, early on, he said, Pop, I'm moving from one level to another, but it won't affect our relationship. He says, it's like me calling you from Phoenix, or Tucson, or from Los Angeles. The reception is the same. So that won't change. So don't worry about that. And then I also was worried about the second part. Second question, which is a great question. As I was finishing the first book, and I was finishing it, and I was feeling a little melancholy because Chris was with me for every keystroke, every paragraph. He inspired every word that was written. And I thought, wow, if I'm done with this, and our project is over, will that mean the closeness will dissipate? And it scared the heck out of me. And it made me sad. And hence the name for the second book. He came to me and said, you know, we're not done yet. Pop. We'll be writing until you cross. 

Vonne Solis  46:46  
Okay. 

Joe McQuillen  46:47  
And so, the bottom line is, no. I know that Chris has another job over there. But he also explained to me that I'm not taking him from anything. You can be with me and do what we're doing, and still doing learning, caring, growing, helping on the other side. So I you know, another something I worried about was, am I holding him back? 

Vonne Solis  47:06  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  47:07  
But I know he's a very evolved spirit. And he's an old soul, old soul. So a I know, we'll be together until he crosses and he's told me what my crossing's gonna look like. He said, it'll be like walking through the woods Pop. And there's a little stream, and you're gonna have to step over to see, to get to me. He said, I can't bring you across. You got to step over on your own. But once you do, we'll be together again. Forever. 

Vonne Solis  47:32  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  47:32  
So 

Vonne Solis  47:32  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  47:33  
I also feared, you know, him crossing on a metaphysical. On the highway. Me going. Him coming back. Until Bob Olson made it clear to me in his book, that, you know, spirit, the spirit of Chris McQuillen, son of Joseph, will stay on the other side. Even though from that same soul another Chris McQuillen wave could come back and be a father. But my son will be with me when we cross, together.

Vonne Solis  48:01  
That's really interesting. I want to just pursue that briefly here. Because I was going to ask you if you believed in reincarnation. You clearly do. And whether, that was literally going to be my question. Whether you worried, because I did, that they might come back after we're like like, they might come back to somebody else while we're here 

Joe McQuillen  48:23  
on the highway when we're going the other way. 

Vonne Solis  48:26  
Exactly. And so how does Bob Olson explain that? Is that a piece like a piece of the soul? A piece of their spirit stays there?

Joe McQuillen  48:33  
He says, think of, he said think of a body of water. 

Vonne Solis  48:36  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  48:37  
Lake Michigan for example. I'm on the middle lake, right? 

Vonne Solis  48:39  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  48:40  
He said, so all our souls are connected, but your soul is a big body of water. Out of your soul are waves, which is your spirit. 

Vonne Solis  48:47  
Okay.

Joe McQuillen  48:48  
So the spirit of Christopher McQuillen may have a bunch of spirits because that body of water has a bunch of waves.  But the Spirit that'll come back, which I believe will be Chris wanting to be a father, will come back, won't won't take away from the Spirit that is my son.

Vonne Solis  49:04  
I get I get it.

Joe McQuillen  49:06  
There still connected. Still one body water. 

Vonne Solis  49:06  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  49:09  
And that cleared it up for me. 

Vonne Solis  49:10  
Yeah. I'm going to consider that. Because I believe that people are gifted with information and can share it for you know, and we receive information that we're ready to receive. And all of that happens in the timing that we're ready to receive it. And it can get pretty intense the more evolved and open we become consciously. And I also believe our loved ones, our children be they our children who are evolved enough and I agree with you, they have to be evolved enough to be able to come down and get in at our level. And, you know, we raise up. They come down from everything I've learned. And It certainly seems that way. Because my daughter, all of her connecting with me, I have had physical, actual physical visits from her. I can't get, I can't get into it. But many, many healings. All sorts and I'm not, I'm not talking about signs. I'm talking about real visits using human human vehicles for them. I didn't know it at the time. And I  so regret not knowing it. And I wish I could. I wish I had time to tell the story. But I can't. And I'll just briefly say her best friend passed five years after her and from a brain tumour. And all I will say is when I was doing my book signing in 2012, for my first book, Divine Healing, both the girls came to visit me at the age that they met. And picked up my book. And although we were making small talk, towards the end, I kind of got them to go away. Because I thought it was just the oddest thing I've ever seen in my life, is two young girls at about age, you know, 12, speaking to an author about a book that was way beyond their capacity. And they picked it up. And I did not know her best friend had died at that point. She had died two years earlier and I did not know that. We'd lost contact. And they picked up the book and they said, We think our moms would really like this. 

Joe McQuillen  51:23  
Yeah. 

Vonne Solis  51:24  
And I was like, what? So I was like, girls are your mom's, I was in a bookstore. Like a Barnes and Noble store, but we're in Canada so it was Chapters. And girls, like, maybe you should go find your moms. And anyway, it was the most awkward, awkward, awkward, awkward, awkward exchange. And at dinner that night, I said to my husband, I believe you know, her best friend, by name, you know, had died. And sure enough, we found out a few months later that had actually happened. So it was an actual visit from those two girls. And it and so, you know, it's like, you don't always know what's happening when it's happening, audience. And I'm sure Joe will attest to it. And I want to get to signs towards the end of this. But just I wanted to just clear up that because I am going to think about this because my daughter did show me the council. I don't know if you have gotten enough into your, you know, spiritual stuff about the council? 

Joe McQuillen  52:16  
Yes. 

Vonne Solis  52:16  
Well, she showed it to me in 2014. And told me she was coming back. And I had long suspected she would come back. She's not here yet. I'm just saying I have grappled with, well, what if she came back to someone else? But I have never considered a piece of her. A piece of that spirit will still be there when I cross. 

Joe McQuillen  52:42  
That's exactly what I believe. 

Vonne Solis  52:43  
So I'm going to think about that one. And so thank you for sharing. I learned something, I learned something new. And it's hard to it's hard for me to learn something new at this point in my journey. But anyway. And not to sound arrogant or anything. It's just if you're at this long enough, the same information gets circulated is what I'm trying to say. 

Vonne Solis  53:03  
Now, I have to turn very quickly to a question. 

Joe McQuillen  53:06  
Sure. 

Vonne Solis  53:06  
That is, you've had this wonderful ongoing communication, connection, messages with Christopher. And it is absolutely blessed. I've, I've had them. I had them for a number of years and around for me, year ten, because of my own journey and what I'm here to do and whatever, those visits became less. But I will tell you, if I ask my daughter and say hon, I really need to see you. I just need something, she will come to me. And it always usually transpires as an astral visit. And an astral visit for audience that may not understand that, it is like a dream visit, but it is not a dream. They, she is always deceased. Well, in spirit, let's put it that way. Always young and that, you know, like the age she she passed. She hasn't aged from it. And she always has a message. But what was interesting in the last visit, which was recently maybe a couple months ago, she allowed me to hug her. And we have never had a physical connection before. It has always been for lack of a better word telepathic. So that was extremely interesting. But the other thing about this is the what can be the pain associated with some of these visits. Have you experienced that Joe? And and for parents out there really desperately wanting to connect. Maybe they are connecting, I have found that certainly in my earlier years that these visits were a double edged sword. They could be while absolutely miraculous, they could also, you have to deal with the humaneness of the loss as well. So my question is how do you balance this fabulous experience that lasts for however many minutes or whatever. And then you come back and you still have to be in this human body with this human pain?

Joe McQuillen  55:10  
You know, I'm, soon as I finished with you, I'm jumping in the car and hanging down, you know, I'm a mortgage broker, and I go to the office and, and, and, and get involved in the other side of the world. A couple of things. One, my I was put on this path. This wasn't my choice. And I'm so grateful for it. Because I think I think my heart would be really empty if I didn't have this. Now, and it's only from a parent who's understands as you do that, I you know, I had a session like I said, at three o'clock in the morning with Chris. And the day after. I'm a little sad. I miss him. My son, William, who's 23 lives in Boulder. He and his girlfriend came back for Thanksgiving and I took him to the airport late last night. And I miss him already. It's like, well, you know, you just had him for a weekend, shouldn't you be content? Well, yeah. But that also triggers that missing that familiarity, you know? So what I do, I'm going to be honest with it. When I start to feel sorry for myself, is I answer emails from parents who've lost kids. You know, we just did a session with Jeff Myra that had, you know, 30,000 views on it. And I'd given my email, which I will here at jbmcquillen@gmail.com. And most of them want it. I do a thing called Steps for Connecting. And I do a chakra chart that I send them. And it just helps put people on that on that road. But I do it. 

Joe McQuillen  56:34  
And then I have a, we do a golf outing for Chris in September, and my friends come from from all over the country. You know, it's amazing. Oh my god, it's so amazing. But I have this you know, my heart gets empty, you know, because it when it's over. And, you know, I feel Chris around and know he's around. And so I of course I do. When I have that three o'clock session, as I did this morning, a day like today, I'm a little less, you know, maybe vibrant, right? But what I do is, is throw myself into service. You know, I live my life two ways. And it's not the way I lived my life before. I live my life to please my God, and to make my son proud. So I know when I'm answering, you know, emails, dozens of emails that I'm that I'm making him proud of me. And maybe, you know, helping another parent maybe heal or have faith or belief. You know, that's a good deal. So yeah, I do. When I've had these connections, there's always a little bit of a hangover the next day. 

Vonne Solis  57:35  
Yeah. And thank you, thank you for being honest and sharing that because I know that for me, it it yes, it impacts me as well. I'm a big one for healing. I have two questions left for you. And I appreciate your time. What are your views on healing? So it's it's not it's not unusual to hear that losing a child is described certainly in North America as the worst loss to bear. I've always considered, no there might, maybe there's something else out there but I don't know what it is. And so what is your view? And if you want to describe it in terms of personal goals, or just general for other for other bereaved parents thinking about this. What's your your view on having a goal towards fully healing from this experience? This is the crossroads that I've been grappling with for the last, say, since 2018. And so I deal, all my work is is largely in that arena. It's heal what you can, but it's about the choice about how you want to live. But whether or not fully attaining healing. Attaining, you know, full and complete healing. I've got this. I'm okay that my child died. I'm gonna just rock my life until my deathbed. You know? Sometimes I'll say, I think that goal might be a bit lofty for me. It's still a goal. Because spiritually, the reason I'm asking this is because spiritually, all things happen in divine order and timing. Right? So how do we coincide? How do we, you know, do you know how to make that? Integrate that? Live that?What are your views on that? Do we go after the healing? What do we do, Joe?

Joe McQuillen  59:26  
You know, it's a wonderful aspiration. You know

Vonne Solis  59:29  
Okay.

Joe McQuillen  59:29  
we should you know and try as you might, there will always be a piece of you're heart broken if you've lost a child. I mean, that's just the way it is. You know, it's not like getting remarried or going to get another dog or you know what I mean? It's, it's an entirely different ballgame. Now, sometimes I have to, dial it back and realize grief is grief. You know, my best friend lost his, his wife. And his and they were amazingly close, you know, 18 years ago. And she'll you know, he got remarried. but she's always going to be part of his life and he adores her. And she's waiting for him when he crosses. So what do I think? I think that I'm okay dealing with the pain. And the reason I'm okay now, I'm not running around in pain all the time. But when the pain hits, it's directly proportionate to the love that I have for that boy. So when I'm sitting there and thinking of picking him up for Thanksgiving, but I'm not right? Or bringing him home, to the airport, but I'm not, I allow myself to feel pain and cry. And it's like a tsunami. It goes back out, right? You gotta, it's when you try to hold it in. And as I said, I've lived a life beyond my wildest dreams. Very full, very wonderful, you know. And I've wonderful friends. I love to golf. Too old to play hockey anymore. I have a great relationship with people. Very blessed. You know. But a piece of me is always going to walk through life with a piece of my heart broken. And if people don't understand that, I'm not there to convert them. If this is too much out of your wheelhouse then leave my life. You know? I came from a very loving, dysfunctional family but loving. And somebody once gave me the quote that said, the unassailable self-confidence that comes from a childhood insulated with love. I grew up being loved. I'm still loved by my family. I love my family. Most of them a bunch of them on the other side and there's new one's coming up. And I adore my family, you know? But that's the only thing that really mattered to me was family and dear friends. So if somebody on the outside doesn't understand my grief or my path, you know, shake them off, man, you know? It's like Christ said in Matthew right? Like dust, you know, shake it off, like dust from your sandals. You know, I'm here to reach parents who need to know that it's not over. And that they can connect. Now, as you know, it's a terrible deal. It's a bad trade. I'd rather be completely, abysmally ignorant of the metaphysical. And, and, and, and go and have pizza and go bowling with my kid.

Vonne Solis  1:02:17  
I've said that. I've said that before. Joe. Oh, 

Joe McQuillen  1:02:21  
It's not our choice. 

Vonne Solis  1:02:22  
That's not our purpose. And yeah, yeah.

Joe McQuillen  1:02:25  
I don't think, God didn't take our child. And you know there's a great line from the book, The Shack. And a woman who played God said to a guy who lost a daughter, Just because I work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies, doesn't mean I orchestrated the tragedies. God didn't pull the rug out from under me with my son.

Vonne Solis  1:02:45  
Yeah, and I just want to pop in for any bereaved person, parent out there that will listen or watch this, is that I personally never blamed God. I accepted the divine right timing and all that stuff from the beginning. But it, it is understandable that one would want to do that. And it's okay. And I'm a big, big, big practitioner, teacher of and believer in, letting things just happen. Feel your emotions, feel your anger, acknowledge it, you know, and just go through it instead of trying to tell yourself that you're not this, you're not that and all the rest of it. But that's another episode. And

Joe McQuillen  1:03:30  
Here's a great story about God. Probably my last one. You know, the days after Christopher drowned were full of arrangements and, and, and funeral plots, and, and receptions and churches and masses and all of that. Right? So I was exhausted at the end of each of those nights. You know, and his body being shipped back from Wisconsin, because it was from one state to another. I'd get on my knees and I'd say, I'd thank God for my family, my sobriety. But I would say, you and I are not good. You took my kid. And then I'd go to bed. And this happened for three nights. And on the third night I got a download, which is kind of unusual, that said, I didn't take your son. His recklessness and freewill caused him to come home early and I welcomed him home. And remember I lost a son, too. It was at that point, Vonne, that I knew God wasn't this vengeful ringmaster, you know, making us jump to his beat, or I wasn't paying for my sins of the past by taking my son. That Christopher's freewill caused him to put himself in, in peril. And that he he sat there, hugging me in my grief. And so my relationship with God changed that day to where I really knew that he was a loving father and my son was in his world and he'd be okay. And I've never wavered from that. I'm a big fan of God.

Vonne Solis  1:04:57  
One thing to consider here and I don't know if you've come across this type of teaching Joe, but is that some spiritual practitioners, authors, again, we're talking the ones that, you know, were quite prominent in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and so on, talked about exit points. And we have, you know, various number of exit points. If one were to choose to believe that

Joe McQuillen  1:05:22  
I do

Vonne Solis  1:05:22  
and looking back at my daughter, I know she missed one exit point. And it took maybe the second or maybe the third. So one can consider these exit points, freewill, same kind of thing and how it wraps it back to, or takes it back to how they choose to go. How any of us choose to go, that's not the point. The point is, we choose our transition. And

Joe McQuillen  1:05:47  
I think we've had a soul contract.

Vonne Solis  1:05:49  
Yes. Yes, yeah, soul contract for sure. And I know what mine is. I may not like it, and you may not like yours. You know, and other people may not like theirs. But when you understand what that is for you, it doesn't matter what other people tell you. Mediums, psychics, doesn't matter, as long as you understand what that contract would be. And this might be a bit for some audience members watching right now and others might be going, Yes, yes, let's talk about soul contracts. I think they're very, very much a part of the overall experience. 

Vonne Solis  1:06:19  
Last thing I just want to quickly say, and you may have something you want to offer and comfort bereaved parents. I will remind the audience, Joe has his two books, I'm going to have links to those. To his website where he's got other material to, it may resonate with you for practices and tips and how to open yourself up to channel. There are many ways to get to open, you know, open expanded consciousness. And we're always being asked to keep opening it. There's not one point where you go, yeah, I'm done. I'm fully expanded. No, this is a lifelong journey. And the other thing I have always said for many years, is once you have awareness, you can't turn it off. So the minute you commit to going down this path, and like Joe says, you know, having to do the work, it's a commitment to being more than who we are in just this physical form, and you can't turn it off. Okay? You can choose what you want to do with it, but but you can't say anymore that you didn't know. So I just want to put I want to, I just want to put that out there. 

Vonne Solis  1:07:21  
The other thing is, consider, you may already be having a child or loved one on the other side who is trying to communicate with you and struggling. I did a week with James van Praagh in 2015 September. It was amazing, amazing. And we all just channeled for five days. And that's what we did. And if you did it, you did it. And if you couldn't do it, I guess you couldn't do it. And it turned out I was pretty good at it. But I will say the vibration is much lower than angels. And I wasn't super comfortable with it. Because you're almost letting, this isn't channeling your child. This, no Joe, I'm talking about strangers, right? And coming and using your body as a vehicle. And so you'll never convince me anybody out there that poo poos this and calls it woo woo stuff, you'll never convince me we don't live forever in energy. And, you know, and and we all have an ability. There were people at that, at that week-long event that actually didn't know why they were there. They misunderstood what it was about. And turned out to be pretty good channels. Just want to say. So anybody can do this. This is true. And as I said, Joe has the resources that he has developed. There are others out there, obviously, but um, check those out. 

Vonne Solis  1:08:33  
The other thing I just want to say before we close out are signs. And I can't believe there's one bereaved parent or bereaved spouse or bereaved sibling or you know, if you're open to it,  anybody bereaved that hasn't had a sign. And while I won't go into detail in any of them because we are at the top of the hour, for me, I just want to say it could be music, smells, feathers, coins, birds, animals, electronic malfunctions, you know, and I just wanted to ask, did you have any other things that people could understand? Yeah. And I've had, listen I've had feathers in a wet shower. A dry feather in a wet shower. And for me, sometimes it's angels. Sometimes I have to think it's my daughter, but she gave something on every anniversary. It might be a phone call from the area code she used to live in, and she doesn't do that anymore. But in the beginning when we really need this connection, and we're desperate for it. You know what, I really believe that every one of them tries. And just because just because you can't feel something doesn't mean that they haven't been trying. And James Van Praagh actually said they get tired of trying and for channels like him, mediums like him, he might have a lineup of of, you know, those who have crossed, waiting to try and almost butt the next person out. So, those but those physical signs, they could be a start to just having the actual connection. Would you agree with that Joe?

Joe McQuillen  1:10:15  
I would also say don't doubt. You know, I Christopher sends me cardinals and feathers. He sends Sally hawks. Different than me. And I'm just saying, don't doubt. You can ration away things. You can do whatever you want to do, but buy in. And I always say, if it doesn't work, we'll refund your misery, you know? But but you got to buy in. You got to believe that your children or your loved one, they're like outside the window, knocking. It's like, dude! It annoys me when somebody says, Well, I don't I'm not good at meditating. Well get better. You know, if you want this gift, you know. And my whole thing is, I believe I have this amazing gift that was given to me. But I've got to give it away to keep it. Right? So if I have this gift, you've got to buy in and do what you can. You gotta raise your level of consciousness. They'll lower theirs and meet you in the middle. But if you're not doing your part it isn't going to happen. And so there's nobody to blame except you. And by the way, this puts you on a metaphysical path that will heal your soul. That will help your heart heal, you know. A little bit, right? So

Vonne Solis  1:11:21  
yes, a lot, actually a lot. I can attest to the power of the angels saving me. The power of my daughter coming through to save me. One last thing I want to say. In my own case, not needing her as much, and I don't mean me I consciously didn't need her. Ah, it's l like, I think maybe I'm not needing her as much and I'm talking, you know, 14 15 16 whatever the time is for you. That's not that they're still not around, they can be here in a jiff. And like I said earlier, if I need her, she, she'll she'll come to me. It might not be the same day, but she'll she'll make sure she knows that she's around. A visit and connection feels very different than anything you humanly experience. And I just want to say to that, for those that are going was that a sign? Was that a sign? It's a sign and it's a visit if you feel that it was.

Joe McQuillen  1:12:14  
I get chills on the back of my neck when Christopher's around. When I was doing this at 3 am, I got a full run chills up and down my back. So intense, so strong. And the message, you know, has evolved. You asked me this. Was originally it was messages to me. Now, it's to me and other grieving parents. And it's about me doing service for them. So it's shifted a little bit, you know, and he's using me as a vehicle, you know, to connect with parents.

Vonne Solis  1:12:39  
Well, I invited both kids to the session. So I did and yeah, and ooh, I'm getting chills right now, too. And so, you know, I just said, Hey, you want to drop in on the session, you know. Your dad, Chris, and honey, we're chatting about this. So, and the other thing it can, you can see humor in visits sometimes too. And their personality traits, and all of that stuff comes out and it's so heartwarming. And I can attest, the longer I've been at this and the more I just want it because I will, I've said last a couple of times, but this really is my last thing. 

Vonne Solis  1:13:18  
We, some of us have surviving children. And they cannot be in my estimation forgotten in this journey. So for those of us that have purpose work, somebody recently said to me, it sounds like you're you've let your loss define you. And I didn't, I wasn't upset. I was just objective about it. And I thought hmm. So I told my son who's 30. And there was nine and a half years between my kids. And he goes, Well, it's true. You have. And it stopped me and rocked me in my shoes, because I am also trying to be very respectful and considerate because he does not talk about the grief at all. What happened his sister died when he was 13. And, and so balancing, making sure this purpose work. This mission, this drive that gets me out of bed in the morning and keeps me doing things even, you know, through sickness and through health, to not let him feel any less because he's the one that survived. And I was going to ask you about that but I'm not sure I want to or you even want to talk about that. But it's a fine balance between our commitment and wanting to be reunified you know with with our loved one on the after life and not letting our our our living human children feel that that that they aren't enough for us in some way. And I'm bringing that up not personally for you, Joe, not personally for me, just as something that is a consideration in bereavement. And I don't have the answers for it. I just don't. And I don't know

Joe McQuillen  1:14:58  
Like you can't get lost in your grief. And maybe one of the things that kept me going was knowing I had responsibility of two kids. William was 13 when Christopher transitioned and, and and so, you know. Carolyn was, you know 19. And so everybody's got to grieve on their own, but come together with unified love. And I respect each of their paths, right? And what I'm doing with you is, you know, my wife, of course, very, very, very, you know, you know, understands and endorses, and they don't listen to these podcasts. You know, I was telling them about it and that's their choice. 

Vonne Solis  1:15:33  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  1:15:34  
But you know, but when they have questions about Chris or the other side, I'm very open. You know, the answer is so it's, it's attraction rather than promotion. My family is my life. 

Vonne Solis  1:15:46  
Yeah. 

Joe McQuillen  1:15:46  
On both sides of the divide. 

Vonne Solis  1:15:47  
Yeah, me too. Me too. And I'm just gonna say, Son, if you're watching, yay! He might, he might watch some of this. He's definitely interested and supportive of my work as is all my family. We're a very small family. But it's just I want to let him know and I'll publicly say right now, you are never second best. You're all right there in my heart. And I think Joe feels the same, the same amount, if not more love than we had before. Because the one thing losing a child does is it makes us love unconditionally. Well certainly like I never did before. 

Joe McQuillen  1:16:24  
And reprioritize what's important.

Vonne Solis  1:16:26  
Yeah. So Joe, fantastic. Thank you so much. I don't think I left anything out. Was there anything else I that you wanted to say? Or do you think we covered it? Did we cover it?

Joe McQuillen  1:16:38  
We covered it. You can reach out, I'd love to hear from you if there's something I can do to be of service I will. 

Vonne Solis  1:16:43  
Yeah.

Joe McQuillen  1:16:44  
And remember your kids are still right here.

Vonne Solis  1:16:46  
Exactly. So thank you so much again, Joe. It's been heartwarming talking to you. 

Joe McQuillen  1:16:51  
God bless.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai