Ep. 71 My Teacher, My Son – A Father’s Story of Loss

On this episode, my guest is Nick Shaw. Nick is a bereaved dad, accomplished executive coach, author and speaker known for his profound insights into personal transformation, self-discovery, and authentic leadership. 

With the 2023 release of his debut book, My Teacher, My Son: Lessons on Life, Loss, and Love, Nick shares a compelling narrative about his experience losing his son, William, at just nine years old and offers a thought-provoking and supportive guide to help readers and audiences alike who hear Nick speak, embrace a more fulfilling and purposeful existence.

Nick and I enjoyed a frank yet poignant conversation about loss, vulnerability and the resilience within us all to withstand and triumph over any tragedy and personal suffering.

TIMESTAMP:
Grief, loss, and finding meaning after tragedy. (1:44)
Grief, love, and resilience after child loss. (8:10)
Grief, resilience, and the loss of a child. (12:06)
Grief, resilience, and finding inspiration after losing a child. (16:42)
Grief, spirituality, and the afterlife. (22:23)
Parenting and grief after losing a child. (25:25)
Parenting, communication, and identity. (31:22)
Grief, loss, and acceptance after child death. (38:19)
Accepting life's events and moving forward after tragedy. (44:44)
Grief, loss, and healing after childhood trauma. (49:34)
Vulnerability in grief and leadership. (57:40)
Final thoughts (1:04:07)
Closing (1:05:57)

Connect with Nick:
https://www.meetnickshaw.com/

Get Nick’s book “My Teacher My Son” on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nick+shaw+my+teacher%2C+my+son&i=stripbooks-intl-ship&crid=3SMQ982GTDJK8&sprefix=Nick+Shaw+%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C142&ref=nb_sb_ss_fb_1_10

Connect with Vonne:
https://vonnesolis.com/vonne-solis-about/

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with Vonne on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Transcript

Nick Shaw  0:00  
Welcome to another episode of Grief Talk. Everything you want to know about grief and more. I'm your host, Vonne Solis. As an author, mentor and bereaved mom since 2005, through guest interviews and coaching, here's where you'll always get great content that is inspiring and practical to help you heal after loss. 

Vonne Solis  0:21  
Today's guest is Nick Shaw. Nick is an accomplished executive coach, author and speaker known for his profound insights into personal transformation, self-discovery and authentic leadership. With the 2023 release of his debut book, My Teacher, My Son, Lessons on life, loss and love, Nick shares a compelling narrative about his experience losing his son, William, at just nine years old. He offers a thought provoking and supportive guide to help readers and audiences alike who hear Nick speak, embrace a more fulfilling and purposeful existence. Okay, so welcome to the show, Nick. It is an absolute honour to have you here. 

Nick Shaw  1:03  
Thank you, Vonne. It's, it's an honour to be here. 

Vonne Solis  1:06  
So for the audience, just as a reminder, Nick has his first book, I believe it is Nick, My Teacher, My Son, Lessons on life loss and love, as I explained in the intro, Nick did lose his son William at nine years old in a skiing accident. And Nick, let's just get right to it. I'm filled with questions for you today. But if you'd like to share anything you'd like with the audience, about your loss, and this is you know, to help other bereaved parents who may be going through something similar. Just how that happened. How that has impacted you and basically led you to write your first book and do the work you're doing. 

Nick Shaw  1:44  
Absolutely Happy, happy to share. So yeah, as as Vonne mentioned, I, almost five years ago, now, my at the time, my oldest son, William was nine years old, we were on a ski vacation to Big Sky, Montana, and had a tragic and really fluke and tragic ski accident, and he he died. I mean, I guess there's no other way to say it. As you can all imagine, for those you've experienced this, you know, the places you go when something like this happens you particularly when you when you lose a child. And in those early days after the accident, and as I was starting to go through my own process of grief, this phrase, my teacher, my son just came to me and it was, I was reflecting on William and the impact he had on me, and I realized he'd been teaching me since the day he was born. And really, at his birth during his life, and even in his death, there were lessons I could learn from it. And I really had this intense need to try to make meaning out of something that seems so random and senseless. And so that started a journey for me to really try to process what happened and to learn from it. So I could live my life differently. And my process of grief, you know, yeah, that was the way I kind of went about it. And and and through that, through my learnings to all the things I've reflected on what culminated was this book. 

Vonne Solis  3:10  
Yeah, you know, what? I feel like I'm talking to me. I literally went through the same thing. And, you know, maybe there was something within you. I know, for me, when I lost Janaya, in 2005, to suicide, I immediately immediately there was no, no question, I was going to do some purpose work related to it. And it did translate into my first book, Divine Healing over a five year period. And I've just never looked back. So for you, do you think there was something sort of intrinsic in you that was sort of, and I'm just going to say this the most respectful way, I cannot let this loss. Certainly respect it. Certainly be in the pain. Certainly be in the grief. Certainly be in the sorrow and the tragedy and the shock and all of that. But at the core at some point, maybe even for, to honour William that you weren't going to let it destroy you? Fine line there. And I've you know, I've worked with that for years. So I just wonder if it's intrinsic in us. Because not everybody, and we're going to be talking about this a bit in the episode. Not everybody can arrive at that place, sometimes years and years and years and years later. But the healing allows us to be exactly what your book is all about and what you're talking about. Is it intrinsic in us that we allow ourselves to find this more wholesome place so we don't let it rob us of our life, the tragedy?

Nick Shaw  4:34  
Yes, I absolutely think it's intrinsic within us. Because I think for all of us, our instinct is to live our lives, right? We only have one that we know about and so all of us want to live as meaningful and purposeful and happy lives as possible. So it is within us. I think the challenge for some when they go through experiences like you and I have gone through, it's can you get there. Can you find that place within your yourself to go there? 

Vonne Solis  5:01  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  5:01  
So for me, I think I came up with so I don't know why, but like I had all these phrases or mantras come come to me in sort of the weeks and months after William died. But another one that sort of hit me was what would Willie want? And, you know, I don't think it's an obvious thing for people to think about if you haven't lost someone. But when someone you love dies, and particularly I know it doesn't matter if it's a child or parent, whoever, there's this notion of how can we live our lives in a way that would honour theirs, right? And that's where that mantra came from. What would Willie want me to do? Would he wants me to hurt myself? Would he want me to to do things that would harm the remaining members of the family? No, absolutely not. He wouldn't want his his death and his life to be for nothing. And so that, for me was sort of the thing that that motivated and pushed me to try to find a way through this thing. And again, this notion of honouring those who have left us it's not often something we think about, but I'm, I'm pretty sure I'm positive William would not have wanted our family to fall apart. His brother to be more, more hurt by what happened. So so absolutely. We have to think about their honours for us and what have you.

Vonne Solis  6:22  
Yeah. Because you've written this book, and you speak very publicly about William and your experience of loss and so on, do you talk about William frequently within your family? 

Nick Shaw  6:37  
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think we talk about him often. 

Vonne Solis  6:41  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  6:41  
You know, I think in a bygone era, the way people dealt with grief was to perhaps sweep it under the rug or just not talk about it. I think we're in a different time in the history of humanity. But you know, he still is a very much a part of our lives. We talk about, celebrate him. We have a series of different traditions now that we've adopted to try to remember him. It's important for my my middle son, Kai, right? He he, him. Even in the earliest moments after the accident, he his inclination was to try to connect with William however he could. Now for us that was tough at first for my wife and I. But he wanted to connect with him. He wanted to see pictured of him. He wanted to talk to him. So we had to we had to find a way to do to model for him that it's okay to do that. So the earliest moments we decided we would talk about him because he's still a part of our family. 

Vonne Solis  7:39  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  7:39  
The other thing that is maybe interesting about our story is that a year and a half after William died, we had another son, Bodie. And we decided to try to have another child because we wanted Kai to have a sibling and we wanted our family not to replace him. But to feel more whole. We felt we felt imbalanced. And we need to have Bodhi know about his big brother. Right? So the way to do that is to talk about him and to share stories. 

Vonne Solis  8:09  
That's beautiful. That's so beautiful. And I'm really happy for you that you were able to have another son. And I completely understand you don't replace the child for those of you, Nick and audience that are able to have another child. I am I wasn't in that position. So I lost my only daughter. I do have a surviving son. And he's now 31. And you know, so we're going back, my daughter would be 40. So we're going back a few years because she died at age 22. But that was a lot to deal with. So I don't know. I can't speak to if another baby or a grandchild helps you heal that wound quicker. I'm not sure. I've read Yes, and it just depends. 

Vonne Solis  8:58  
But the point I want to make here is we have to find and cling and Nick I'll let you speak to this, whatever we can to that will ignite and then keep that spark going and then turn into a flame and eventually, hopefully a fire within us to burn bright. And we don't have to go on stage with all these messages. But for those of us that are led to do that, and speak publicly and share, because it does take a huge amount of courage and vulnerability to do this. And we're going to talk a little bit about vulnerability in a minute. But I want to move to this chapter six you have in your book on love and we will be having a link to your book, Nick. You say that a life cut short is a stark reminder of our mortality but allows for love to emerge. And building on this idea of the spark, the flame, the fire, what would you like to say about that to help others who are sort of stuck in the darkness or maybe just very new in their grief with child loss or some other type of tragic loss?

Nick Shaw  10:08  
Yeah. So that, that, that chapter. So in my book, there's a series of poems. That's the first poem I actually wrote. So so, you know, the love, the love that I experienced in losing William was was not something I'd ever experienced before, in that way. Experienced love with my family. That notion, but you know, we were embraced by our community. We acutally live in a small rural Massachusetts town and the town literally enveloped us.

Vonne Solis  10:41  
Nice. 

Nick Shaw  10:42  
And you know, we're a small town 5000 people where the literally the focal point of the town is the school. And so when a town like that loses a child, it's, it's, it's, and I say this in the book, you know, it takes a village to raise a child. It takes a village to mourn one. And I felt that in a very real way. And I was so touched by the humanity that could emerge even even in our darkest hours. Because that is, you know, the emotion that comes about. It's real, it's human. It's, it's, it's sort of it's visceral, and people from all walks of life in our town wanted to share that and share, be part of that with us.

Nick Shaw  11:19  
Not only our community, but our family, our friends, people came from all over the world to celebrate William's life during the funeral. Again, it's just not something I'd ever been exposed to. I grew up in Manhattan. I'm a city kid, but and in that type of community. That that kind of sort of oneness I'd never experienced before. And I believe it's, it's, it's, it's all around. It's kind of kind of what you were talking about earlier is, you know, do we have it intrinsically within us to find that capacity to sort of find the resilience to move forward with our lives? I think it's the same thing with love. We all have that capacity. You just have to kind of unlock it. And for me, when, when the community rallied around us, it sort of that it unlocked it for me in, really in the in the first time it had ever been unlocked for me in my life. So it was really a special moment. 

Vonne Solis  12:08  
Yeah. I always sort of, think of the loss of a child. It's kind of like when you've never been a parent before, and you become a parent, and you feel a love that you can't describe unless you've been a parent. And then the loss of your child, it kind of ignites that same intensity of love but on a different level, and in a different way. And it does, I think, open us up to different things. We all find different things from, you know, from our loss, and I'm talking just child loss here. It could happen I gather in other losses. But I've had many other losses since Janaya and none impacted me as much. Parents, her father, my ex partner, my current husband is still alive and healthy. Yay! But you know, for me, and I, in all the years that I've been at this and met other bereaved parents and stuff, they just say, there's just, there is no other loss like it. And so, and I really don't comment on that. Yes. No. Because I do respect grief is grief for everyone, no matter what you've lost. But I just know, it's kind of different if you've actually lost a child, and tragically more if you've lost more than one.

Vonne Solis  13:29  
But when we talk about, you know, this idea of connecting to that intrinsic love, like you've never felt because they're now gone. And it it stirs up all of these things. Also negative. I think the negative emotions are extremely heightened. The guilt. Everything we did wrong, you know. We don't need to go there right now but there's tons of stuff. And I did want to say one thing. I'm very, very happy for you that you had community. And I don't know if that's rare or not rare. But I know that there are deaths out there. Children that do bring a whole community of people together. Suicide is not one of them. And we've felt very ostracized and alone for many years. And I don't regret that because I get to see that side of it too. And so I didn't get to experience what you did. Community, you know, like, getting together and, you know, and all of that. So I can only imagine how supportive and comforting that had to have felt in the very early days. But nevertheless, it still after all of that fades and goes away, then that's the intrinsic piece where you have to rely on what we're moving into next. The resilience of this human spirit. And what we what would you have to say about the resilience of the human spirit?

Nick Shaw  15:00  
Um, look, I think I think as a species, we are a resilient species, right? We wouldn't have evolved over 1000s of years if we weren't. You know, I again, it, I think we we're touching on this theme. It's it's intrinsic to us, but you have to find a way to unlock it. You have to find that thing that's going to sort of inspire you to to find that, that resilience within you to do that.

Nick Shaw  15:25  
You know, for me, I recall a very specific moment when that happened. Again, it's it's an anecdote that in a book, but I'll share now because it really, it it really is a it is a it sort of was a turning point for me.

Vonne Solis  15:41  
 Yeah.

Nick Shaw  15:41  
It was one day and I was just, I was, you know, in the deep state of depression and grief and so much of that I was just basically there couldn't move. I was on my bed, just, you know, I was incapable of doing anything. And honestly, it was the only way I felt comfort, right? Just to be isolated in my bedroom on my bed not moving and just shutting out the world. And every time I would try to move, I would try to move, but I just couldn't. The weight of everything was so much that I literally physically felt like I couldn't move. And my phone buzzed because someone had texted me and it kind of activated my phone. And the picture that was on my phone was a picture of my middle son Kai.

Nick Shaw  16:24  
And, you know, Kai, ever since he's one had huge eyes and in that picture, you just see him with these huge eyes kind of looking at me kinda kind of a reminder, hey, don't forget me. I'm a little brother. Don't forget that I'm here, too. And, and, and that kind of like woke me up. Because I he was he was kind of my my sort of reason for being. My reason to sort of pick myself off the mat and really try to try to try to get out of this funk, or just, you know, try to do whatever I could to be there for him. And that was a big driver for me. Just you know, I couldn't I couldn't let, obviously we'd lost William. I really didn't want it to sort of have any lasting damage on on Kai. Obviously, William is a part of his life and always will be a part of his life, but I had to be there for him. So that was that. And that's where I sort of dug deep and found the resilience to really just try to find a way forward. And I continue to use him to this day as sort of someone as an inspiration for me to find that.

Nick Shaw  17:27  
Yeah, I think resilience is realizing that at some point, you got to move forward. As hard as that is when you lose someone you have to move forward. Doesn't mean you have to forget. But you have to figure out a way to move forward and live your life. 

Vonne Solis  17:41  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  17:42  
The only way to that is to go through it. And that means enduring some pain. Going through the pain. But that's the only way throughd it. I wish I could tell people are going through this, that there's there's another way. That you can circumvent it but some of it you can't. You got to go through the pain, through the grief to get there. And Kai was, you know, he was the reason I got, he was my sort of inspiration to do that. So I guess for people who are find something that you can cling on to and use as your inspiration and motivation to find that resilience.

Vonne Solis  18:15  
Yes, exactly. It's very interesting, because, you know, I like you had my son as a motivator to get out of bed. I couldn't really take care of him. And he was 13 when his sister died. So fortunately, my husband stepped in and was able to do a lot of that stuff. But you know, it, I like to say the time marches on. But unless you actually do something with yourself and your pain as you can, right? You're going to be in the same state you were years later. And I've seen people like that. And that was also a huge motivator for me. Seeing other bereaved parents. I attended a support group regularly for the first year. And not everyone was like that, but it wasn't a place where they wanted. You know, it wasn't the platform and I never criticize support groups, but I was needing support that encouraged like, any amount of moving forward. Anything that would bring us hope and insight and feel better rather than just a repeat of stories. And so I do just, you know, in some of my work, caution people that you know, when they're looking for support, to, you know, if you come away feeling uplifted and wonderful and even make a good friend or two, that is the most amazing support in the beginning. Community. But as the years go on, if you haven't done something to address what's really going on with the grief, the trauma, you know, you're going to be stuck with a lot of problems years ahead. So any of the people that I have met in their first few years and I started my work right away, right? And it's you know, it's interesting to see where you're going to evolve in years from now, Nick. It's just going to be so interesting, but I guarantee you're gonna look back at this and your, your perspectives and things will change and grow as our lives grow. But it's the important thing is just making a commitment to not wanting to get stuck. 

Vonne Solis  20:25  
The other big motivator for me was my daughter. And I just absolutely did not want to make her death and her choice to go. Because it's a little different when there's an accident or an illness, we get to say, Oh, well, that took them. But when they take their own life, it's you're still dealing with another level of stuff that's very hard to process, and it can take many, many years. So I didn't want that to be her legacy. My pain. My absolute, you know, devolving into nothingness. And that kept me going for many, many years until more recently, I am living for me. And so that is also a huge change in some of the work that I am doing now. Nevertheless, I just wanted to give that a shout out. 

Vonne Solis  21:17  
I agree with you. The resilience is there intrinsic to all of us as survivors. But we can survive in different ways. So surviving the way you're talking about, and I'm talking about, we have to find ways to tap into that. And it only blossoms and grows. I guarantee everybody. Once you choose that path, it only blossoms and grows where we get to the point if you're not already there, where you can, I don't want to say thank them for being in your life and grateful for the experience and all the lessons they've taught through their passing. That's a hard one. And one I've set myself up to you know, really embrace. That's just what I personally am striving for. And I'm almost there. I have to say, but hey, I'm 18 years in and it was something that really, I have struggled with, and respect that. But they are our teachers. I want to go back to that really quickly. When you say that William was your teacher for many years before he left at the very tender age of nine, how was he your teacher? 

Nick Shaw  22:20  
Yeah. So I have a poem, I have a poem in my book about this, which I read at his, when we when we buried his ashes at the cemetery. In in, in at his birth, he taught me to live my truth. Because I decided to when he was born to do a career that I was more passionate about because I needed to role model for him, you know that you have to do things that you love. And so that was the first lesson he taught me. In life, he taught me he taught me the power or the beauty of imperfection. You know, William William struggled with, with anxiety. And, you know, he went to therapy and you know, I'd say, right around the age of eight, he was really started to come into his own to the extent you can at that age. And he came up with a mantra at age 8. My wife takes the boys to a Unitarian church that had some great programming for kids. But the mantra he came up with was Be Yourself. And this is you know, a month or so shy of his eighth birthday, this little boy comes up with a mantra Be Yourself. 

Vonne Solis  23:28  
That's pretty profound Nick.

Nick Shaw  23:30  
Yeah, it's it's it's kind of and people always called him an old soul. And that is that is thinking that is well beyond his his, his his years at that point. We're all imperfect. We're all just here trying to figure out who we are. How we want to show up. And so that's what he taught me at the age of 7, 8 and 9. And then you know, he taught me the power of love right? That that that at 4. The love you have for a child is so visceral and when that when that when there's a void in that love it, it finds, it finds itself in other ways.

Vonne Solis  24:03  
He's going to be your, he's going to be your lifelong teacher. I mean, I can feel him. And I was blessed, we're not talking about that today. But I was blessed with my daughter visiting me from the afterlife within hours of her passing. But I had a metaphysical and spiritual practice for 23 years at the time she died. And so it was my mission. My mission for me to know there was an afterlife and great. Yes. I had read all the books and stuff but experiencing it. I had had other experiences but none like this. And so I've been told and until I'm passing it on to you, and we take it for what we want. But they will be our lifelong teachers. Whether she'll come back in my human life, if she does, I hope I recognize her. But if not, I know she's there and when I need her or want her to pop in, she does. So. but it's not regular. And I'm going to be upfront. It's not like all the time now, but maybe once a year or something. And I've let her go very peacefully to her place, and whatever she's doing, wherever she is. And I feel very comforted by that now. You know, it's turned from a need to, hey, I just want to see if you can, pop in. Check in, let me know you're okay. I know she is. But you know what I'm saying? I'm just making a little bit light of this, but that's kind of another beautiful thing. If we can think about them as still with us, they will give us the signs and show us in different ways that they are here. I have zero doubt that, William, I'll bet he helped write your book. I don't know. But if but, you know, however you feel about that. But I really feel he's going to be hanging around you for quite some time. 

Nick Shaw  25:54  
Yeah. I would agree.

Vonne Solis  25:56  
I want to ask you about your five key parenting tips that you've learned from William and have for others. I'm curious to know what those are Nick.

Nick Shaw  26:06  
Absolutely. Yeah. I think I think one of the biggest things that I guess one of the biggest things that I learned about parenting, you just, I'll link it a little bit to what you're talking about, about having connections with with people who have left us. You know, in sort of, I'd say about a three weeks to a month after William died, he visited me in a dream. Where I was looking for him just as I had been that day. And I found him. And we gave each other a big hug and  and he said, Well, I'm so happy to see you. But but but I can't stay. He says he said that's a shame. And I don't quite know why he used this phraseology. But he said, I'm as proud of you as you are of me. And so in with as I reflected on that dream, and that visit, you know our kids, they want to be proud of their parents, right? And we are their role models for what it means to be human being at least until they go off into the world, right? And so as parents you know, it's a huge responsibility, right? Everything we do, everything we say is always under a microscope. And I'm not saying you have to overthink it, but but be aware that what you do what you say how you respond to different situations is something that will always be looked at by your kids, and they'll they'll take cues from that. So I think that's that's one of the sort of big lessons I've learned. There's more to ponder I would say.

Nick Shaw  27:34  
And I think the, the other piece is, is you know, because our kids look to us, we have to we have to model ways of being that will help them. We have to we have to model willingness to be vulnerable, right? To let them know when we make mistakes. Because if we don't model that they won't do that. And then, you know, they'll have to learn it the hard way. So I think the more we can think about the types of people we want to raise or the types of human beings you want to help raise, we have to be very cognizant of those behaviors that we model. 

Nick Shaw  28:08  
The last thing I'll talk about is is, you know, we all we all carry baggage from our own childhoods. 

Vonne Solis  28:15  
Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  28:15  
And I do believe generational trauma and baggage that gets passed on generation to generation. And it's our responsibility to break that cycle. Right? I mean so my own? I love my family. I love my parents, but they came from a different era. And there are definitely things that are a problem for me, which I don't want to model for my kids. But we have to make that choice. We have to get our own house in order so we can not precipitate the cycle. So I think that's another piece is to really think about. What are some things that maybe you bring from your own childhood, whatever narratives or limiting beliefs being. Because those will get transposed to your kids? 

Vonne Solis  28:54  
And and you know, a couple things I just want to say about that. If you think your kids aren't picking up? It's just like you said, Nick, on the cues. On the cues of what you're feeling. What you're thinking. Certainly what you're saying to your spouse. If you're a single parent, maybe what you're saying to them anyway. They're way smarter than we give them credit for. And a lot of bereaved parents find that out about their kids when they've gone. It doesn't matter how they died and whatever age. But quite often we'll find out Whoa, I didn't know they knew that. And anyway, I've met so many parents that said that. Did the loss of William change your parenting style with your remaining two beautiful kids? 

Nick Shaw  29:36  
Yes, I mean, I've been I've tried to be more intentional about catching myself when when I get triggered, right? You know, because again, if I don't catch myself that behavior will just be what will be exhibited and then they'll be they'll, they'll interpret how they'll interpret it. And if and if I don't catch myself and then I own it and say Hey guys. Sorry, I lost it or whatever, whatever. 

Vonne Solis  30:01  
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Shaw  30:02  
I just just try to try to let them know that I made a mistake. And that's okay. I'm a human being just like they are. 

Vonne Solis  30:09  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  30:10  
I remember one story. And this was when when William was still alive. I had some parenting, you know, mess up. And I remember telling him I said, William, you know, you're the first eight year old I ever had to parent. So I'm gonna make mistakes, you know? 

Vonne Solis  30:24  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  30:24  
And that's true for the other two. And, and again, I just think we have to own it when we make mistakes, because, you know, there's no hand books, but, you know, dealing with the real thing, things happen. 

Vonne Solis  30:36  
And I got news for everybody. If you're not parenting adult children, yet? Ahh, it doesn't change Just letting you know. And um certainly not with a son. And I love it, love it, love it, love it. But the loss of Janaya completely changed my parenting style. And I wanted to say two things about this for you Nick and for the audience. Is that, yes, we're gonna get caught. So the Vonne before being bereaved, and the Vonne after being bereaved. And a few years into, you know, getting over the shock and trauma and finding some ground that felt safe to walk on. So I look at myself as just no more than a guardian of my son. I'm there to steer, to guide when he needs my help and as age appropriate, you know, model that behaviour. But I understand they can be taken from us, or choose to go from us at any time. And so one of the things that can be helpful, I think, as a bit of a practice, if you're finding yourself, I'm not speaking to you directly, Nick. I'm speaking in general terms here, you know, going off the rails. You know, so when I see parents, for example, yelling at their kids, or I don't know, just be in behaviour that is super controlling, or just something where there's, they're in conflict. I think to myself, do you know how lucky you are you have your kids? Like, do you even stop to think about what it would be like if you didn't have your child? And I'm not doubting the love of any parent in a healthy parent child relationship, and maybe even in unhealthy ones, the love of a parent for their child. But understanding that they could be gone, kind of can stop you in your tracks and go, Wait a minute. And what legacy do I want to leave for my child? 

Vonne Solis  32:31  
That's the other piece. Even if they're not going to be gone? It's like you're talking about Nick. What do I want to model for that child? What do I, you know, like, what kind of a parent do I want them to remember? Because they're gonna remember the bad more than the good. And also the communication piece. And I love what you said about just owning it. Not all of us are going to be perfect. And my son is old enough now to kind of point out anything that might trigger him from the behaviour patterns of his parents. We're biological parents to him, but my husband was not the biological parent to my daughter. So there was a little bit of a difference there. And he now, owning his own home, has the kids room for us, for a what do you call that? And out, like when you have to go out for you know, five minutes. Sit out. Whatever whatever it's called. And, and it's kind of just a fun thing. So you can also turn this into a little bit of a fun thing. But really, the point is that what I'm telling why I'm telling you this is that he doesn't like conflict. And he doesn't like conflict, because it brings back all the crap and the memories from all the really bad years of grief and things like that. So we work very hard to be our, you know, like, be our best. So that's another piece is, is in motivation, and wanting to be our best for our remaining children to model that, you know, this vulnerability. We're not perfect, but hey, I really love you. I want to work through this at at whatever age that communication is important. 

Vonne Solis  34:07  
And I would, I'm thinking, parenting is very different now than it was 40 years ago, and even 30 years ago, and even 20 years ago. And so I'm and I'm thinking that there's much more room for this communication to take place. Where maybe more traditionally, we had models back in two, three, four decades ago, where it was not quite as open. Like we talked about a lot more socially and culturally now. And it can open the room for more conversations would you say, Nick? 

Nick Shaw  34:43  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, I reflect on the way I was parented, you know, and I parent, my kids it's just a totally different thing? 

Vonne Solis  34:55  
Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  34:56  
Our kids are a lot more privy obviously, based on social media, the Internet. It's a lot. So they they can sniff it out a lot quicker than we could back in the day. 

Vonne Solis  35:05  
Yeah, yeah.

Vonne Solis  35:07  
Yeah, I think it requires as parents that you are more open, honest and vulnerable with your kids because they know.

Vonne Solis  35:12  
They're gonna see it on the internet if you don't have a discussion. And the other thing I just want to say, for any parent out there, um, I wanted things for my daughter that she didn't want. And it was a key key learning moment for me to not sort of imprint on my children what I thought was best for them and what I knew they were capable of doing, but they might not have had interest in it. So that was a huge change, difference I took when my son got to university and things like that. And, you know, so it's just, we're guardians. And have the discussion. You might think that they're, you know, PhD material, and they want to go into the trades or something, you know? Okay. And so I wasn't a helicopter parent, but I was a very, you know, I see your potential and I know, you can, you know, rise up to it. Let's do this, you know, and, you know, let's do that. And yeah, no. I stopped that. And maybe that was unique to me, but I don't think so.

Nick Shaw  36:21  
I think we can have a tendency to know what we want what's best for our kids, but we also right, wrong or indifferent, you know, our kids become a part of our identities. Um, it's nicer to say well, my kids a PhD versus a tradesman or trades person, right? So I do think you have to you have to really check yourself when you when you say is this really I'm doing it because in the best interest of my child or is it because for me.

Vonne Solis  36:45  
 Yeah, exactly. And and all due respect to trades, service people. Somebody taught me not long ago, that you know, there are people who absolutely, she works in, in corporate similar to what you do Nick and executive coaching for corporate. And we we got into this, you know, discussion about service work versus the executive stream and all of that. And she was like, you know, what? There are some people who absolutely love cooking, or cleaning for other people, or pumping gas or working at the jobs that we can have a tendency to prejudice them, you know. Show prejudice against because it isn't this high achievement. And I've remembered that and tried to honour it, because I was doing kind of some of those jobs right after Janaya died, because I didn't think I could do anything else. And that was just my experience and put me in that world for about a year. And it was very different and eye opening. Anyway so in whatever way, it's the communication piece I want to emphasize here, talk to your kids. Because they do want to talk and even if we think they don't, and listen. Listen to your kids, people, right, Nick,? When you lose a child, you listen. You listen. I'm not saying you didn't listen to William. But I didn't maybe listen and hear the same thing she was saying, Janaya. I do with I do with my son.

Nick Shaw  38:19  
I think listening is critical. First of all, because again, back to the top of the world modelling, but, you know, we live in a world where we're always on our devices or distracted. And I think the more you can put a premium on listening and connecting with your child the better. 

Vonne Solis  38:36  
Yeah, and I'm gonna say this, even though people it might be painful to hear. If anybody is watching this, that has not lost a child, what we're just saying, if you listen, hear, communicate, connect. If anything does happen to your child, you will have peace of mind that there was nothing left unsaid, or regrets. Yeah. That's going to be my little piece on that one. 

Vonne Solis  39:04  
I did want to move a little bit here to you talk a bit in your work about how to approach challenges with an open mind and positivity. And if you would Nick just share. I think that's wonderful and great to do when you're not dealing with tragic loss and trauma and so on. But you know, terrible bereavement. Do you have any words of wisdom to apply that, I have no doubt you're applying those principles to your life, but for others to apply it to their own when they have gone through terrible loss. Child loss or other very difficult loss? 

Nick Shaw  39:42  
Absolutely. First off, that's an aspiration, right? And what I mean by that is, it's not going to come to you day one, or year one or year two or three. If that's the aspiration where you want to try to get to? Don't don't rush it. I think if you it's not real. So I think as I said before, the only way through grief is to go is to go through it. You can't circumvent. You can't speed it up. But there does come a point where, you know, I can't sort of particularly describe the specific time when it happens to me are but there does come a point where, you know, you find the capacity to accept what happened. And as you accept what happened, you you, you can take from it, what it has to offer. You know, like any experience in life is an opportunity for growth and learning and personal evolution. You have to sort of see that, and again, it's not something you want to rush, and it will happen if you're open to it when it happens.

Nick Shaw  40:48  
You know, I think about everything that happened with William, and I can't picture my life differently. It's a strange thing to sort of admit, but this is my life now. This, this happened. William died. And this is a life, I have. I share with my wife and my two other sons. I can't picture my life differently. My life is so impacted by what happened in horrible ways. But also in a lot of positive ways. I just can't pick differently. And it's a weird thing to say? But that's how it is. It's kind of like, I had a life where I had William in it, and then I had a life where William wasn't in it. And that's sort of how I've now bifurcated my life. My wife and me sort of too. And that's how I've accepted it.

Vonne Solis  41:33  
That's so interesting. So I want to say, so I was going to jump in on that point of acceptance. I think that acceptance of what has happened. The loss, the reality? Is key to being able to move forward in your grief, and embrace a beautiful new life as a bereaved person. Because I also say, you're never not going to be bereaved. We're bereaved. That's it. But that doesn't mean we have to be in grief, the rest of our life. And there are those that can recover completely from grief. And then there are those that, you know, may not entirely recover. And that's a personal thing, right? It's just a personal thing, and unique to each of us. And how we feel about whether or not we still are in grief about something which is basically prolonged suffering more than anything, this grief. But it's to me, it's a bit of that sorrow. And anyway, I haven't got that one, you know, for me, personally, quite decided yet. Because there's a whole bunch of stuff that goes along with that. You know, accepting that your child wanted to leave the planet and actually killed themselves. That one's the tough one for me. 

Vonne Solis  42:51  
But I did just want to say before I invite you to respond is, I don't think your idea is weird that you can't picture life any other way. That is sticking with me because I've never thought of my life like that. I've never thought about, wow. And in fact, I did spend quite a bit of, not a lot of time, but sometimes, sometimes, I would imagine what life would have been like, if Janaya hadn't died. I certainly wouldn't be doing the work. I acknowledge I would not be who I am. And I wouldn't be doing the work I do today. So she gets full credit for her leaving the planet pushing me in this direction. But you know, we had that sort of perfect life. Log house acreage. You know, one boy, one girl, cat, dog, you know, etc. And I often would say, you know, it was like a Thomas Kincade painting. Obviously, that wasn't what was really happening on the inside. But in my world, that's how I saw our lives. 

Vonne Solis  44:03  
And so, I'm just I'm not going to dwell on that today or talk about it today. But it was an interesting, interesting thing that you said. And I'd just like the audience to think about that. That you can't imagine your life any other way today. And I think that's just an incredibly impacting statement, Nick. And I'm super happy for you. And I mean that. I mean that with all my heart, because that definitely, well I'll ask you. Do you think that ties into your acceptance of William William's passing and that it had to happen that way? Or just that it happened. I can't change it. It is what it is. 

Nick Shaw  44:44  
Yeah, it's a bit of both if you ask me. I think both. I think, I can't change it.

Vonne Solis  44:51  
 No.

Nick Shaw  44:52  
Nothing can change. The bad. Yeah, so there's nothing I can do about it. It happened. So that's that's one element of it. But I've reflected a lot on what happened on the events of the day. 

Vonne Solis  45:05  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  45:07  
If I were to, if I were to do that day over a million times, I wouldn't do one thing differently. Like, literally. Not a thing. There's not you know, what happened was a freak accident. There's a lot of little things that had to, you know, happen to make. To put us on that in those circumstances for that to happen. 

Vonne Solis  45:25  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  45:27  
And sort of, I've I've you know, the only conclusion I have is that it was meant to be. 

Vonne Solis  45:33  
Yeah. I didn't want to say that because I don't, but I believe I believe in that. I believe in that. 

Nick Shaw  45:40  
It freaks a lot of people out but...

Vonne Solis  45:41  
 I know. I know.

Nick Shaw  45:44  
 The way I look at it, like, and that's where, you know, yeah, he was he was he had a, a short but impactful life. 

Vonne Solis  45:52  
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Shaw  45:54  
And that's where my drive to sort of make meaning and try to write this book and create a legacy for him and some of the things he did get in. And that's where it all came from. So I think it's both. It's yeah, it's like, you have to accept that because, you know, there's one finality in this life and that's death. At least, 

Vonne Solis  46:13  
Yes. 

Nick Shaw  46:14  
And so there's nothing you do about that. And if you're more spiritually inclined, then then you know, there is this notion that things happen for a reason. 

Vonne Solis  46:23  
Yes. And and by the way, despite my four decades spiritual practice, and huge interest in metaphysics and working with the angels and all of that, I still give equal respect to the human experience in what we go through physically, mentally, emotionally. Because it you have to, in my, in my view, it's it's important, I should say it this way, it's important to blend the two. Merge the two. Not try and compartmentalize one and then live in this world. And you know, there has to be a beautiful merging of the two, if you're gonna go that route. And this acceptance piece. You're being able to accept, and you describing what you just described. That there wasn't one thing you could have changed that day. Right? Leads me to think that no. This had to happen. And if not that day, maybe another day. You know, and that's when you get into all of this spiritual stuff. But sticking to the human experience, by you saying that Nick and other people thinking about what if I just accepted that there was nothing more I could do? Because do you know how many people? I would wager millions and millions get stuck in this shoulda, woulda, coulda. You know, didn't. You know, all of those things. And that keeps us in this cycle for sometimes years and years and years, doubting ourselves. You know, blaming ourself. Having tons of guilt, tons of regret. And all of that does, it breaks down relationships, and you can see it's just a rabbit hole into total destruction. 

Vonne Solis  48:00  
So you're inspiring me. And you're inspiring me to, I don't have that cycle. But it was one on a very deeply personal level on in my inner world of blaming myself. Because it's very difficult and I'm speaking to audience members who here watching or watching this or listening to this. If you are stuck in that cycle of blame, blame, guilt, guilt, and all those horrid things you feel about yourself because you did not save your child or other loved one? It's, it's really. There comes a point where you just have to realize it's not worth the energy it's costing you. And the effects it's probably having in all areas of your life, to keep going down that road. It has happened. 

Vonne Solis  48:49  
So what you're seeing it's, it's it happened. It's almost like, you know, the simplest thing is right in front of you. It happened. Accept it. And then that can be the your ground zero. The point from which to rebuild your life. Because you have to address all of those other things before you can start to really rebuild and embrace this beautiful life of fire within you. And I'm not saying you've perfected it. I would not do that. But I'm saying you get the idea, the principle, the mission, the purpose, the motivation, to be in that place to embrace everything else you've got in this new life. And that's what I'm honouring, you know, hearing you say that. Would you agree? 

Nick Shaw  49:34  
Absolutely. And, you know, I will say this because I'm sure in your listening, the people listening to this, this this show.

Vonne Solis  49:43  
Yeah.

Nick Shaw  49:44  
In stages of where they are on their own journeys?

Vonne Solis  49:46  
Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  49:47  
Although it's taken a lot of work to get here. I don't I don't want to minimize that you know. It's not you know, it takes work and it's a long road and I'm almost five years in and so if you're not there at day one, that's that's totally normal. It's it's, it's it's a process. It's a journey. It's yatta yatta. You'll get there when when it's your time to get there.  I say that because, you know, I think my mission and my goal is to try to inspire people. But I also want to say that it takes work, right? This doesn't just happen. 

Vonne Solis  50:20  
Yeah, it's lifelong. I will say it's lifelong work. Because what happens and you don't know this until you experience it, but the grief sneaks up on you. And years later. And there can be moments, anniversaries. And I've spoken before about, you know, ten year anniversary. And I'd read about, oh, ten years. Something, you know, kind of triggers you at ten years. And I was like, really, really? Because I read as many books as I could when Janaya died on child loss. And there were really just hardly any. And most of them were written by dads. It was so, I could only find one written by a woman at the time. And it was just so interesting. And to me, it didn't matter what age. How the how the child died. I just wanted to know, was I going to get through it? And and what was gonna happen in twenty years? And I know every, every situation is absolutely unique and different. And I really, really get that. But all I know, for me, and I've talked to others. Many others, and it can just sneak up on you. And you know, when these you know, anniversaries, triggers. I don't know smells. Do you still go skiing? Do you still go skiing? 

Nick Shaw  51:38  
Yeah, its a good question. So I went skiing for the first time three years after the accident. 

Vonne Solis  51:44  
Wow. Yeah. How'd that feel? If you want to share? 

Nick Shaw  51:48  
Yeah, no, happy to share. I mean, it's interesting. I was I was definitely nervous, because I just didn't know how it was going to hit me. Didn't know, if I have, yeah I just didn't know, right? PTSD, or whatever?

Vonne Solis  51:59  
 Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  52:01  
But I have to say, when I went skiing for the first time, I kind I kind of realized it was actually just another another powerful way to connect with William because skiing was something we we we we held, as a very deep bond for the two of us. And so another way of honouring his life, and you know, I kind of I do one small ski trip a year as a sort of a bit of a spiritual pilgrimage, a way of connecting with him. And actually, last year, my son Kai, I took my son Kai skiing for the first time because he wanted to. He wanted to go skiing, so I took him skiing, and

Vonne Solis  52:34  
Were you terrified? Were you terrified? I would have been. Like I would have been so I'm so curious. 

Nick Shaw  52:44  
I've skied my whole life. And I know that I know that what happened to William really is, it's it was a totally fluke and freak thing that happened. 

Vonne Solis  52:54  
Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  52:54  
and the chances it would happen again were pretty slim. And also, I was like, I was very close to Kai every minute of the way down those those slopes.

Vonne Solis  53:00  
Yes, yeah. 

Nick Shaw  53:02  
But you know, I just wanted him to have a good experience because, you know, one of the things my wife and I talked about is like, we don't want this you know, Kai's lost a brother. We don't want it to define who he is, and the choices he makes. 

Vonne Solis  53:19  
Yeah. 

Nick Shaw  53:19  
Try to honour him if we can. And he said something to me that I'll never forget. He said, you know, Dad, he said, I want to ski with my family someday. I think it's cool, right? It's pretty cool that he was, he was 10 at the time. It's cool that he has that sense of like, yeah, I lost my brother but I'm not going to let it control me.

Vonne Solis  53:40  
Yeah. You know, it's so it's so interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Because when we're afraid of something, or we want to shelter our surviving children, which is a natural thing to do, but at some point, you have to let them have their life too. And that kind of comes with being vulnerable to our fears and at the same time guardian to them. But I'm not gonna lie. I lived for years, completely over. Well, not over protective of my son, but scared to death something was going to take him. And even now, I get sometimes just sometimes, where I'm like, geez, I haven't heard from him for like, 24 hours. He's 31! 

Nick Shaw  54:30  
Again, and I get it. I mean, that happens to me with hearing loss if I want if I'm worried I can't find, you know, I go right back to the day where I couldn't find William. That's always gonna be that's always gonna be that. 

Vonne Solis  54:42  
Yeah, that's the trauma people. So understand that that's very probably very natural. But at some point, and this is this whole idea that we can't control our kids, their lives, their futures. What worked for me is ultimately because my husband said it was a super bad idea to put a tracker on my son's phone. And he doesn't live in the same city. And I'm just making a joke here. But you know what I mean?  Just joking here. But just to just really understand, it's to really understand, I can't do a thing about it if something happens to any of my loved ones. So I practice instead, because I do live with PTSD. I practice instead, here's what you will do if this happens, and don't implement it, if and until you cross that, you gotta cross that bridge. And and so it's about I just wanted to give a shout out for people traumatized and living with, you know, extreme loss. I consider child loss extreme grief. Complicated grief, trauma, all of those things. Just manage it. Catch yourself and go, Okay, that's kind of, Alright, maybe, you know, I don't need to worry about that. And but it's natural to worry. 

Vonne Solis  55:59  
And I commend you for getting up on the hill. The mountain skiing. But also I was gonna say, by not going and not taking Kai and maybe Bodhi one day, it does kind of, if that's what they really want to do, it kind of robs them of that experience. And apply that to anything in life for those of us that have surviving children. I never wanted my grief to, you know, basically just ruin my son's life, nor the lives of my extended loved ones. And don't forget, shout out to extended family here, who while they might want us back the way they were, we were, they want, they want us to be happy and engaged with them as well. Because while we're not talking about that today, certainly child loss, difficult loss can impact our relationships not only within our immediate family, but with our extended family. And we're not maybe the ones to work through the grief with them. But just remembering that they want, they want us to all be together and connect again to and you know, any kind of child loss can really destroy those relationships, too. So just wanted to give a shout out for that. 

Vonne Solis  57:13  
All right, we are getting to the top of the hour, Nick. I just wanted to speak really briefly about vulnerability. I said we were going to talk about it and we've talked about it sort of had it weave in and out through the conversation. But is there anything else you want to share about being vulnerable? Because I think it's one of the hardest things that we can embrace in our bereavement and allow ourselves to go there. What does it mean for you to be vulnerable?

Nick Shaw  57:40  
Yeah, so I think, I've thought a lot about this, obviously. I mean, I kind of consider my book as one big act of vulnerability for me, because it's not, it's not sort of the way I, I used to approach the world or I was I never, I was never that open before. And I feel like I've opened myself up a lot in the book. And I think it goes back to this theme of being yourself, right? Because I think when we're not vulnerable, we are masking a side of ourself from the world. And what it has to do with grief? I'll talk first around grief and and more in general about the topic of vulnerability. But for grief, I think being vulnerable is being okay that you're doing grief in your own unique and special way. Because I think there was a time when I was in the early stages of grief, and I probably read one too many grief books where I thought I was doing it wrong. 

Vonne Solis  58:37  
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Shaw  58:41  
And I think we just have to say, Hey, I'm, I'm just doing it my way and my way is okay for me. And so that that, to me is sort of that acceptance. That to me is vulnerability in grief and just being okay with, that's how I'm going to do it. And that's what worked for me. I think with respect to vulnerability, just, outside of grief, you know, one thing I've thought a lot about is, many of us spend a lot a lot of energy protecting and being guarded, right? As opposed to being vulnerable. 

Vonne Solis  59:10  
Yes.

Nick Shaw  59:11  
Being vulnerable is going to be this huge act of and it's going to cause all kinds of negative repercussions. But think about how much energy we put into being guarded. It's a big waste of time and energy. And so why not just let the guard down and connect with others in a more meaningful way. As we talked about, you know, it can like death is it's a razor thin line between the two. And you never know when it's your time when the loved ones times and so might as well just try to connect with as deeply and as powerfully with the people you're engaging with by being vulnerable. So that that's kind of my take on vulnerability both on the grief side and non-grief side. 

Vonne Solis  59:50  
I agree with you and I attribute all of our mask wearing to two things. So on the grief side. Our more difficult types of loss. Child loss, suicide, murder, all that kind of stuff, people are uncomfortable with it. Shut up. So it definitely cultural culturally silences us. On the other side of it just as human beings, we're so competitive. It's such a competitive world. Vulnerability means weakness. And if you're weak, you are not top of the pack. Next. Basically, if we express our vulnerability, you know, we just don't have the ability to compete in the world. And I have found that over the 18 years. I never felt though, like I was wearing a mask before Janaya died. I wasn't. I'm just me. And basically, what you see is what you get with me. But it's when we have to be in those guarded situations, and keep how we're really doing quiet. It doesn't mean I've said this before, it doesn't mean we're gonna shout from the rooftops. It just means that it's that softness to ourselves and that authenticity that everybody hides. And yet, that's the only true way of connection.

Nick Shaw  1:01:06  
Yep.

Vonne Solis  1:01:06  
And I'd like to see that change. We're not talking about your competitor, your your work on the corporate side, but you are you kind of do work in that with corporations, don't you? 

Nick Shaw  1:01:18  
Absolutely. And I've written blogs about articles about it, where, you know, for leaders, I think there is this, if you want a role model, just like parents who role model for our kids? Leaders role model for the people they lead. So the vulnerable leader is someone who is gonna allow others to be themselves by being them being their own authentic selves. And I think one of the challenges with the word vulnerability is it gets blown - we think vulnerability is saying you're gonna - it doesn't mean you have to be an open book, and you have to show your vulnerability whenever. It's just as you said, it's just about showing your true nature of who you are, and the softer side of who you are. But it's an important thing for leaders, for people in general. I think we're in a time where I think there's more acceptance so we just have to try to continue to push that agenda and try to get more people to buy into that. It can be a powerful leadership.

Vonne Solis  1:02:12  
What a contribution, and boy would I, I'm not in corporate at all. But I worked in government for a number of years after my bereavement. And every year for five, I added an accommodation. A work accommodation. And I got it. And I probably worked just as hard or harder than the full-timers. You know, I ended up part time. And they respected it. So I was very fortunate. But I had to be my own advocate for that and teach people about vulnerability through my experience. And so be brave people. And you know, you don't get what you don't ask for. And I love what the work you're doing. So if anyone's interested in that side of you, I just want to move to your resources here, Nick. So even though this is more an episode on the grief piece, if anybody happens to be interested on the corporate side, they can go to your website, and essentially, what are the resources you're offering for, well, all of the things that you do?

Nick Shaw  1:03:08  
Yeah, so my website is meetnickshaw.com. And that will offer a bit of my story. It offers details on my book. I also have a blog going there. So if you're interested in the book and interested in learning more about me, that's that's the place to go visit. The book is available on Amazon. I think, yeah, if you if you're interested in connecting with me there, there's a there's a link on there that you can send me an email or connect with me. So you can do it that way. Learn more about my perspectives on grief or learn more about my perspective on leadership.

Vonne Solis  1:03:43  
Yes, I did see it. And it's a beautiful website, Nick. I did just want to say that so shout out. Anybody interested in Nick's book, we're gonna have a link to that. And for those that are interested in Nick's take on, you know, leadership in the corporate world, and are interested in contacting him for any services on that side, please do so. 

Vonne Solis  1:04:07  
Nick in closing this, I did just want to thank you again, very much for your vulnerability and sharing your story on this podcast. So Nick, in closing this out, do you just want to take us out with your key takeaways so the audience can reflect on your words of wisdom?

Nick Shaw  1:04:24  
Absolutely, yeah. So the first takeaway is, you know, we really have this one life to live. And so I think it's on us all to be more intentional with how we choose to live that life. So we can ensure that our lives are purposeful, and meaningful.

Nick Shaw  1:04:40  
My next takeaway is, you know, life is a series of ups and downs, right? That's just that's just reality. And for those of you who've lost a loved one, you know, that just when things can be going better, something kind of knocks you off the proverbial mountaintop and, and the only way forward is through acceptance. Right? And once you can get to that place of acceptance, you can you can find a way to learn from the experience that's in front of you. Because I do believe our experiences are our greatest teachers.

Nick Shaw  1:05:07  
I think because we are here for just this brief moment, we all should find the courage and feel empowered to to be our true authentic selves. And the key to that is to let our guard down and be vulnerable. A big part of that is shedding some of the limiting beliefs and narratives that we carry, we've carried throughout our lives. I think if you're feeling like those types of thoughts are dominating your mind space, then find resources to help you, you know, think differently and live this, and live this life differently. 

Nick Shaw  1:05:38  
And, and then lastly, you know, I think when we are more open and more vulnerable, it allows, I think, the true potential of the human spirit to to shine through and, and with that comes love. So it all starts from within. And the more we can open ourselves up to that the more we will have that in our lives. 

Vonne Solis  1:05:57  
Yeah, it all starts with love. And it all ends with love for those of us that are on that journey to find our inner peace and our holistic wellbeing. Thank you again, Nick, for, you know, being a guest on my show and sharing everything you've shared about your story, your wisdom, and what you've learned. I really appreciate it. 

Nick Shaw  1:06:16  
Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. 

Vonne Solis  1:06:18  
Okay, take care.